Joel Anderson, Christian theologian, on his blog : Genesis 1-11 isn’t about what the literal age of the earth is, etc.. If there was a historical Adam and Eve living about 6,000 years ago, the message of Genesis 1-3 isn’t any different. And that message is this: human beings are made in God’s image, they sin, they suffer and die, and they are in need of salvation—and still, for some mysterious reason God hasn’t divulged to us, that has been God’s plan all along. He created this creation so that Christ the Savior and Sanctifier would have something to save and sanctify.
Gary:
“He created this creation so that Christ the Savior and Sanctifier would have something to save and sanctify.”
Paraprhase: The perfect God created a universe in which human beings and animals endure massive, horrific suffering for tens of thousands of years—just so that he could eventually send his son to perform a bloody human sacrifice to save and sanctify them.
How can you possibly believe that such a being is “good”? Saying that “it’s a mystery” is a cop out. If this is what your “perfect”, “good” God did, then the words “perfect” and “good” have no meaning. This is sadistic behavior. 17,000 children under the age of five die from starvation each and every day. There is NO justification for allowing this to happen if one has the ability to prevent it. Isn’t this strong evidence that your God is either: impotent, dead, non-existent, or the epitome of evil?
End of post.
Escaping Christian Fundamentalism 
that may be one of the most screwed-up theological statements I’ve ever read. Ever.
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And there are so many to choose from. How can you be certain?
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Granted – it’s a judgement call…. 🙂
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I was thinking about this screwed up theology, and indeed yes, it is theology. Proverbs 16:4
“The LORD has made everything for His purpose–even the wicked for the day of disaster”. Maybe he’s right? If I remember right that was written by Solomon, Son of David, King of Israel. Go figure.
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Interesting translation…. Not good, but interesting…
The Hebrew says “The Lord made everything to answer to him -even the wicked man for the day of evil.”
(the word in Hebrew is לַ מַּ עֲנֵהו — “lam-ma-a-ne-hu” – “for the answer of him”)
The International Std Version does a decent job of translating this: “The LORD made everything answerable to him, including the wicked at the time of trouble.”
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It is handy to have an array of bibles to decipher the simplicity of the gospel. I’ll make a note of that. Would I be considered wicked because I honestly don’t believe? Is that better or worse than those that say they do because of customs. I would think I’d get points for honesty. Yes?
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In Judaism? Nahhh, you wouldn’t be considered wicked for “not believing”. There’s a term in Hebrew – Ger toshav – it basically means “righteous Gentile”. The Jews even have a particular “category” for “righteous Gentiles”, called “Righteous of the Nations”, and people that are declared among the “Righteous of the Nations” can even be given honorable burial in Israel. Schindler (of “Schindlers List”) is buried there as on of the “Righteous of the Nations”.
“Wickedness” – like “righteousness” – has to do with actions. Some guy living in some aboriginal tribe, totally disconnected from the rest of the world, might be a heck of a lot more righteous than a lot of Christians I know (probably including me). In Judaism, the Gentiles would be judged according only to the Noahide laws (and there’s only seven of them).
So, as far as I can tell, you got to “do” wicked to “be” wicked…. However, simply not “doing wicked” does not make you righteous. Righteousness is a call to the “above and beyond”….
I’m guessing you’re probably a guy who’s just like most of us – kinda average, in the middle, you don’t hurt people, don’t steal, you try to refrain from saying nasty stuff about other people. An overall “decent guy” (I’m just guessing). But, while that might keep you from being qualified as wicked, it really doesn’t do much in terms of making you qualified as righteous… 🙂
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Thanks for the kind reply. Funny, After being in the church for so long, then leaving, your friends and family treat you like a traitor. My unbelief puts me somewhere below child rapists in many surveys. Lol. Anyway, a group that will embrace you for your belief, will turn on you over unbelief. I lost em all by following my integrity instead of theirs. Not being a Christian I’m ripening for hell at judgement day. Not for anything I’ve done, but for a thought.
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Yes, you evil, evil thought criminal! How dare you use your brain to evaluate the rationality of supernatural claims made in ancient scientifically ignorant manuscripts.
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I was downtown at the the square reenacting Abraham’s sacrifice of his son. (That was after I sent my wife and other son out in the desert to die) anyway, the police came and arrested me. I claimed religious exemption, wound up in the psych ward on seizure medication. Now I have to be monitored with an ankle bracelet. But hey, I’ve had someone watching over me my entire life so I’m used to that. They can’t read my thoughts though. And they can’t punish me after I’m dead. We leave that to god. Is there no escape?
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Funny!
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Gary, you hit Christendom squarely between the eyes, particularly from their Scriptural meanings. Bravo.
For example, Psalm 51:5; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 1:18-25, 3:9-23, 7:18; and 1 John 1:8-10… just to name six passages, directly from God’s own written Word/breath. There are many, many other passages too that support this human condition and trait of the Christian Catholic or Protestant God and His intentional allowance of it ever since The Fall of Man. And apparently this same God continues to simply standby, especially with regard to infants, toddlers, and children who suffer and perish around the world.
If I may Gary, from one of my blog-pages, more food for Christian thought and rethinking. Apologies for the length, but I think it important:
It is quite clear that the “God and Savior” of the Hellenic canonical Christian New Testament and Old Testament is worse than a cannibalistic vampire. 😉
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Prof – Explain to me the “mindset” here, because I really don’t get it.
I see God, in the Samuel reference you mention, ordering the annihilation of the Amalekites. And, I don’t have a problem with it. But then, I’m one of those guys that thinks there are actually some things that are more important than life. You see, I wouldn’t hesitate to kill you (for example) if it meant saving another person from being killed by you. Nor would I hesitate to die if it meant saving the lives of my friends. I mean, I’m one of those guys that thinks that as horrific as the usage of atomic bombs in WW2 was, it was the right decision. But, that’s me.
So, enlighten me on this mindset that says a king (for example) in the Bronze Age, couldn’t wage a war of annihilation against a people that had brought a war of annihilation upon that king and his people. I guess I need to understand what I’m missing there, because given the nature of Bronze Age war which, (I’m making a guess, but I hope not a wild-assed guess) you are quite familiar with, what do you see as the “more appropriate and acceptable” military response would be – again, given the nature of Bronze Age wars.
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Correct me if I am wrong, ft, but the Bible says that the reason that Yahweh ordered the annihilation of the Amelakites was because the ancestors of the Amelakites, 400 years earlier, had refused permission for the ancestors of the Israelites to cross their land. So if this is true, the entire Amelakite nation—men, women, teenagers, children, infants, and the elderly were slaughtered due to a four hundred year old property rights issue.
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Well, I think you might need to re-check that, buddy. The problems with the Amalekites started when the Amk’s opposed the Jews at Rephidim, not far from Sinai (compare Deut. xxv. 17, “smiting the hindmost, all that were feeble behind”. That was the start. But, the problems continued through the book of Judges, where together with the Ammonites, they assist Eglon of Moab, and (Judges, vi. 3, 33, vii. 12) they aid the Midianites and the children of the East against Israel. This was not short-term stuff. The basic picture is that from the get-go, there were always problems with the Amalekites – so much so, that even now, and even though the Amalekites are long-gone, in Jewish folklore, Amalekites are a reference to “evil”.
So, no, I don’t think it was a “property rights” deal at all.
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Ok. Good to know. But what was the reason given by Samuel to Saul, allegedly given by Yahweh, for slaughtering all the Amalekite men, women, and children?
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Well, 1 Sam 15 says “I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he set himself against him on the way while he was coming up from Egypt”.
It would appear, then – with the Amalekites repeated attempts (sometimes, with allies) to annihilate Israel, that the way Amalek “set himself against him [Israel] was a pretty “permanent” kind of thing… It obviously lasted quite a bit longer than just the stuff in the Sinai…
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My Tanakh of 1 Samuel 15: 2-3 from Masoretic texts in Hebrew then to English, translated by rabbis of the Jewish Publication Society says:
Quite a bit different Ftb than your bible quote. There’s not much to misunderstand from some of the oldest extant Hebrew manuscripts of 1 Samuel and from Jesus’ God.
The Masoretic texts of the Hebrew Tanakh from the 7th – 10th century CE, along with many Jewish rabbis today admit that even the much older Septuagint, Peshitta, Samaritan Pentateuch, and several scrolls from the Qumran Dead Sea library, going as far back as the 3rd – 2nd centuries BCE, contradict the Masoretic texts. Now imagine how off or mistranslated some/many modern Christian Old Testaments would be or might be when they were still revising them well beyond the 1500’s. This difference here is a prime example.
Just a footnote that must be kept in mind when reading modern Christian Old Testaments. 🙂
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Good point. I went back and checked it in my own (Hebrew) Tanach (with Rashi commentary), and yep, the translation you provide is what the Hebrew says. And, in this particular case, it is entirely consistent with my Septuagint.
Thanks for the reminder that English translations suck.
However, this does not change my original “request” I made to you regarding a clarification of “mindset”. I may have overlooked your response, but, I can’t seem to find where you responded.
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Due to life’s daily obligations (distractions) and the time that has elapsed, I cannot honestly remember precisely your “original request.” I thought I had already adequately answered. I’m usually pretty consistent about addressing every request. But… like everyone, I am imperfect and growing old. 😉
Can you refresh my memory please?
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Furthermore…
As is any other translations of 1 Samuel. The Septuagint is not the only Jewish source/translation. You are still viewing the entire vista of context through ONE microscopic lens. Consider other valid sources.
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Prof – re: “The Septuagint is not the only Jewish source/translation. You are still viewing the entire vista of context through ONE microscopic lens. ”
Seriously, how do YOU know what textual materials I use? You have no idea who I am, what my doctorate is in, what languages I’m fluent in – NOTHING. And you most certainly do not know whether I’m viewing the “entire vist of context through ONE microscopic lens”.
Please try to refrain from making such preposterious assumptions about other people, what they’ve studied, what their background is, and “how they view things”. It will make you much more pleasant to chat with.
re: “Due to life’s daily obligations (distractions) and the time that has elapsed, I cannot honestly remember precisely your “original request.”
My “original request” was this:
Prof – Explain to me the “mindset” here, because I really don’t get it.
I see God, in the Samuel reference you mention, ordering the annihilation of the Amalekites. And, I don’t have a problem with it. But then, I’m one of those guys that thinks there are actually some things that are more important than life. You see, I wouldn’t hesitate to kill you (for example) if it meant saving another person from being killed by you. Nor would I hesitate to die if it meant saving the lives of my friends. I mean, I’m one of those guys that thinks that as horrific as the usage of atomic bombs in WW2 was, it was the right decision. But, that’s me.
So, enlighten me on this mindset that says a king (for example) in the Bronze Age, couldn’t wage a war of annihilation against a people that had brought a war of annihilation upon that king and his people. I guess I need to understand what I’m missing there, because given the nature of Bronze Age war which, (I’m making a guess, but I hope not a wild-assed guess) you are quite familiar with, what do you see as the “more appropriate and acceptable” military response would be – again, given the nature of Bronze Age wars.
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@ Ftbond —
Because you stated this:
Backing up further, this was all in regard to your earlier comment to Gary about 1 Samuel 15:3, where you wrote:
Since you never volunteered to Gary your specific Bible version/translation in your reply discussing what 1 Samuel 15:3 says and what the passage is about within the full historical context, without asking you for your exact version/translation — that might unnecessarily go on a few tangents — I found it quicker and easier just to show readers (on Gary’s blog) there are various different translations today of the Deuteoronimic histories and of 1 and 2 Samuel from AT LEAST five to six sources dating from the 6th-century BCE to even the 16th-century CE in some cases. Even the Septuagint that most Christians (unknowingly) use today differ substantially from Jewish Masoretic sources, as I showed in my version/translation to your quote of 1 Samuel 15. They are not the same. Much of Judaism today and in modern and ancient history believe their rich legacy of culture and literature (sacred manuscripts included), especially Syro-Palestinian Judaism:
And rightly so! Not only was this done during their exiles, but done more brutally by the Hellenic Roman Empire into the 4th-century CE. Many Orthodox Jews today believe some/many Christian groups, denominations, and seminaries still badly distort their cultural and literary histories. This backdrop should not be ignored or quickly brushed over when it comes to the significant differences of ancient Hebrew texts, commonly (and naively) assumed by today’s Christians as ONE Old Testament, one source, perfectly identical to originals.
So it’s a bit misleading to biblical/historical novices reading this comment-thread when you write (in a single authoritative manner) “Well, 1 Sam 15 says…” without noting or hinting to any readers here of the/your Old Testament’s transliteration differences and problems into any language other than ancient Hebrew. And so for your brief discussion with Gary, I found this important to point out to any novices here. That’s all.
Moving on, you wrote:
That is absolutely correct! I’ve tried to explore this about you, however, your WordPress username and Gravatar link to nothing about you, your personal, educational, or occupational background. I wanted to do this since you do not volunteer any of it here in your comments. Gary can attest to the fact that I’ve tried to do this with regard to you… and others here that visit. But fair enough. 🙂
Perhaps much more effort CAN be put forth by us both. I just remember you recently saying you did not have the time, effort, or desire for these sorts of chat-improvements and the depths I prefer to go into on such critical controversial subjects, especially authentic, cumulative, historical contexts like Second Temple Judaism/Messianism and the origins and human development of the canonical Christian bible. 😉
Regarding that “original request” on waging Bronze Age wars, I remember now that I could not find any question-marks in your comment-inquiry to me. That was the first thing, so I got the slight impression you might be rhetorically asking, i.e. not really seeking an answer. Also, due to many blog-formats that blog-owners select discussions can get disjointed, lost, confusing when connected replies are not located. That’s why I suggested to you to utilize WordPress’ Reader.
Nevertheless, and with that in mind, I responded with this below, keeping in mind about a supposed “God of Abraham” not bound by time or hindsight, my point was not about military warring in the Bronze Age by humans, but about a GOD who would order it in such horrific measures, even upon innocent babies. And by default still allows/perpetuates it. My previous response:
Yet, aren’t those questions and dilemmas of the morality of war, genocides, violence on massive scales… and their solutions something an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent God should be asking and doing Himself? Why use a pea-shooter (people) to wipe out a civilization when you command the forces of Nature and the Universe? Save some lives of your “Chosen people”! And remember, Time or hindsight does not factor in or bind this “God.” But diving into the nature of this “God” portrayed in the canonical Christian bibles only gets worse and more convoluted upon closer and closer scrutiny.
For me personally, that is NOT a “divine being” (portrayed in Hebrew, Greek, Christian, and Islamic sources) who wants to be intimately understood, only feared… more than other Bronze Age gods. A smart, all-knowing, all-powerful God can easily figure out more humane ways to control His creation and creatures, no matter the time-period.
Hope that helps. 🙂
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An exceedingly lengthy diatribe to get down to nothing more than an opinion: “For me personally, that is NOT a “divine being” (portrayed in Hebrew, Greek, Christian, and Islamic sources) who wants to be intimately understood, only feared… more than other Bronze Age gods. A smart, all-knowing, all-powerful God can easily figure out more humane ways to control His creation and creatures, no matter the time-period.”
And, it doesn’t come close to providing an understanding of what I wanted to know from you, which was this:
“So, enlighten me on this mindset that says a king (for example) in the Bronze Age, couldn’t wage a war of annihilation against a people that had brought a war of annihilation upon that king and his people. I guess I need to understand what I’m missing there, because given the nature of Bronze Age war which, (I’m making a guess, but I hope not a wild-assed guess) you are quite familiar with, what do you see as the “more appropriate and acceptable” military response would be – again, given the nature of Bronze Age wars.”
There, at the end of that paragraph, I state a question clearly: ” what do you see as the “more appropriate and acceptable” military response would be – again, given the nature of Bronze Age wars.”
Through all this (seemingly) almost endless banter, I do not see that you’ve come close (at all) to even answering that one, straightforward question. And, most assuredly, you have not explained why fighting a war of annihilation against an enemy that was trying to annihilate you was an issue.
But, I give up. Too much effort has gone into this already…
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No bother Ftb. As I’ve told you once before, I do not like to do all or most of the expansive, alternative, valid/authentic, get-outta-the-box reasoning for others.
I think I made it VERY clear by my follow-up explanation that you are too focused on “Bronze Age military warring” by humans/cultures and nation-states, whereas I was correcting you on that misunderstanding and extrapolation you made. It is not the Bronze Age human armies, tactics, ruthlessness and strategies that was my point, it was the direct commandment of it all by the Abrahamic God. A scripturally portrayed “God” that does NOT need to use pea-shooter humans to accomplish His ultimate, foreseen will. None of it adds up as a multi-omni God created by Bronze Age men.
I think that’s simple enough.
Take care.
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re: “A scripturally portrayed “God” that does NOT need to use pea-shooter humans to accomplish His ultimate, foreseen will. None of it adds up as a multi-omni God created by Bronze Age men.”
Yes, and this one single statement is totally fine. But, this is just a theological issue: Why would God use humans to accomplish His will?
It’s a valid theological question – one which I’m sure the Rabbis have discussed on at least a few occasions.
Would it be fair to say that, according to YOUR view of “God”, that somehow your version of God would just do everything he was going to do without the involvement of people?
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We don’t need to belabor this given the time, effort, and desire constraints stated already, but…
Yes, it is a Bronze Age people’s theological fallacy on a mythological Divine Being of their little nomadic people/tribes who over the centuries developed into an even more convoluted Christian theological fallacy given all humanly ascribed traits, mainly all Its omni’s. War has always been atrociously brutal, insane, and devastating to all parties/nations, no matter the time-period.
To your final question…
This mammalian, primate behavior — war, bloodshed, genocide, infanticide, etc. — has nothing to do with any theistic/deistic external force or entity. Those are figments of humanity’s vast cerebral ignorance, coping mechanisms, a theatrical stage of gods for the world/life/existence they cannot fully understand and are exceedingly afraid of its unknowns/ignorance.
At the risk of gross simplicity here, in real life, an empirical life that can indeed be understood, we humans must be accountable for our own misgivings or ignorance and stop passing off that ownership/accountability to imaginative, invisible, fictional Bronze Age characters or character.
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Gary, I wish we had a reliable testimony/manuscript from the Amalekites, Horites, or Amorites. With only 1 (2?) sources available that are Jewish/Hebrew it’s essentially a Kangaroo jury on WHO was more moral, justified and blood thirsty, huh?
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I’m still utterly baffled as to why you’re looking for anything remotely resembling “morality” in war…. But, then, you never have answered my original question about this.
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Why do people/nations go to war, no matter the time-period?
Do you think/feel the Jewish world-view and their written testaments in your Old Testament in the 6th-century BCE are the one and only true, factual account of conflicts in the Fertile Crescent? Are the Amalekites, Horites, or Amorites incapable of conveying an equally truthful account of events? Are Native American Indians incapable of conveying additional facts about the conflicts/invasions of white settlers on their ancestral lands or ANOTHER factual version of the Battle of Little Big Horn? Are 19th-century Zionist Israelites justified in invading, slaughtering Arabs, and creating a “nation of Israel” in 1947 and ever since when Muslims, Egyptians, Estrucan-Italians, Iranians, Greeks, Byzantines, and Iraqis actually have much more legitimate, confirmed rights to Jerusalem, Gaza, and Palestine?
I don’t want to do all the equitable thinking for you Ftb, but “mainstream” history is always written by the Victors… for a period of time. Does that make sense?
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Gary, in his above reply, makes a very valid point. I wanted to be more comprehensive of the Jewish scriptural records from at least five of their books in their Tanakh, or in the Torah, Nevi’im, and Ketuvim. For Israel and Judea it didn’t make ANY difference whatsoever what other kingdoms, empires, and religions thought about military affairs. Their God, Yahweh, was supreme above them all. Period. No discussion. Old Testament passages can be provided to support/illustrate this if need be. Suffice to say that the God of the OT or NT was extremely jealous (childish?) and would never accept any before or above Him. Tons of hyper-testosterone going on in that “God.” 😉
From a more general standpoint of that ancient era and inside the historical context of Bronze Age kingdoms or empires in and around the Fertile Crescent those Kings, Queens, and their Regents/Consuls/Viceroys, etc, were bestowed with “Divine ability” of writing/inscribing Holy scriptures and laws, then reading/translating them to their subjects, both of which were anointed abilities by that supreme god of that specific culture/civilization — i.e. Yahweh in this particular case — and strict, no-questions-asked OBEDIENCE was expected, demanded, and humanly enforced much like our modern military hierarchies… with the exception of death, stoning, mutilation or the like for dissension/disobedience. Furthermore, the “God” of the OT and NT is eternal in all ways (the omni’s), the Alpha and the Omega, and is accredited with this Nature outside of Time.
Is there a HUGE difference of reasoning, rationale, genius, education, logic, facts, evidence, proofs, etc, today versus the Bronze Age? Yes, and not because of any Bronze Age or post-Classical manuscripts regarded as divinely/supremely inspired. It has been achieved by the evolution of humanity, Homo sapiens… thank the Stars and Galaxies, physics, biology, chemistry, Quantum sciences, etc, etc, brought about by our species’ diversity, curiosity, courage, and open-mindedness. Well, with many exceptions of some groups of humans. 😉 😛
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re: “Gary, in his above reply, makes a very valid point.”
actually, Prof, Gary didn’t make that reply you refer to. Just thought I’d mention that….
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Gary wrote above:
Unsure of what you are looking at.
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One of the “oddities” that seems to affect the blogs “presentation” in certain browsers is that comments don’t always come out in the proper order…
The way it appears on my screen is that a comment I made was preceding yours, so it appeared that you were commenting on what I said.
Just one of the occasional “mixups”, I suppose…
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Then I suggest you utilize WordPress’ Reader. It organizes comments easily, coherently and in descending order. It ignores the blog owners settings/preferences.
Just a tip.
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ahhh, interesting… I didn’t know there was such a thing. I’ll check it out…
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I recommend it over the blog-owner’s version/format… most of the time. However, many blog-owners have exceptional creativity, aesthetics, etc, with their “actual” blog URLs.
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The key to understanding the mysteries is unbelief. Only through unbelief can one condemn the atrocities of a god and develop the integrity to distance himself from it. Only through faith can a good man support an evil plan. When people leave faith they automatically condemn it. Not by planning, but by natural law. We don’t have a people problem in this world. We have a religion problem. If this life were some sort of test, it would be to see if man has the audacity to stand up to a god over what’s right.
“Straight is the gate and narrow is the way and few there be that find it” 2.4billion isn’t few —we are!
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Jim, I completely concur. I would only add an extensive study and understanding of Agnotology too… as you would not be surprised by that given I mention this at every opportunity I can! 😉
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Culturally induced ignorance is an epidemic worth fighting for, evidently
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And it started (in one tradition at least) with the hoax of The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden, or otherwise nobility controlling the masses/kingdom. 😉
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I think that much of genesis can be taken at face value when you realize who god is. God (the writers) took it as an affront to their power for man to seek knowledge. Knowledge is still second to belief in the churches, and is often eschewed as “worldly” or secular. Code-speak for irrelevant to the importance of spiritual matters.
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I’m thinking you might need to re-check Genesis out… There was no problem with seeking knowledge at all. There was, however, an issue with obtaining the “knowledge of ‘good and evil'”. Vastly different thing, actually.
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Why then are their sects/groups who disavow any and all medical sciences because of their “God’s” divine powers? Are there some 20-50 religions or denominations of those religions who disagree with you Ftb?
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I’m not at all convinced that some individual or some denominations idea of preferring “divine healing” over medical treatment has anything at all to do with what Genesis says about not eating of the fruit of the tree of “Knowledge of ‘good and evil'”.
It’s fine with me to complain about people or denominations that push that idea. I think it’s kind of mindless myself.
I’m just trying to suggest you find some other, more applicable scripture, rather than the “knowledge of ‘good and evil'” thing in Genesis. That had to do with God wanting people to retain their innocence. It had nothing to do with whether they learned the multiplication tables or not. That’s all I’m saying…
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I’ll help you along Ftb.
Gaining vast, fruitful, helpful, altruistic knowledge about everything in the world, animate and inanimate, and of the human psyche and anatomy as well as Mob-Herd Mentality, etc, BENEFITS humankind and relieves suffering and premature death. When this very (medical) knowledge is forbidden by Abrahamic holy scriptures, clergy, rabbis, or by its theology — e.g. those recent Orthodox Jews in the state of New York who refused to have their diseased children vaccinated — they perpetuate and condone UNnecessary suffering and death given modern medicine.
Many things (and I would often argue MOST things) are not at all “evil.” That is merely fear by those Faithers of what by personal choice or peer-pressure they do not understand. “Innocence” is another word for fear and ignorance much of the time. So on the contrary, my comment content and implied meaning is not at all mindless fluff. It may be to you, but not everyone. That’s all I’m saying. 😉
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Didn’t “help” one bit. But then, I’m not the one expressing any “problems”, so I don’t know what there was to help in the first place.
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No bother.
I must now finish my final preparations and draft for a Thursday, June 6th speaking engagement honoring our living and past soldiers/veterans of the Normandy D-Day invasion, as well as those serving other theaters of war attending. Till some other time. G’nite.
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Are they. Like religious authority today, just the right kind of knowledge is carefully guarded and funneled, even to the very young. And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”
Seems we could have been like gods and lived forever with the same knowledge they possessed. Why be so selfish? First of all, it’s awkward arguing over a myth and it’s meaning. If any of it were true, that would be something.
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Well, I don’t know what kind of “religious authority” you’re accustomed to. Me? I don’t have any tremendously bad experiences with such things in my background, but, then, I wasn’t raised in a church or anything.
So, sounds like you got something of a “personal issue” with “whom-ever”, and if it has to do with churches “funneling the right kind of knowledge” (which is often bogus), then, yeh, I got no problem with that.
But, like I said in my earlier post, the “knowledge of ‘good and evil'” thing is just not really a good scripture to pick as a basis for that particular complaint. Heck, there are probably others you can find. But, using the Gen scripture, and leaving off the “…of ‘good and evil'” part, makes it look like you’re doing worse than cherry-picking. It looks like you’re purposely mis-representing something by taking it out of context.
So, I’m just suggesting you can probably find other scriptures to base your “anti-knowledge” complain on. Just a friendly suggestion.
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I was responding to the genesis comment. Sure, the Bible is a walking contradiction and I could provide more. I never intentionally mislead. I don’t really need to. I even quoted the entire passage in the next comment. I really don’t have any axes to grind. This is just a part time gig where I make a little levity at my prior life. I do think I may have two different post comments mixed up. The app version gets a little tricky tracking sometimes.
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Ah, the severe limitations of mass produced cookie-cutter technology software for the almighty dollar, eh? LOL 😛 Whatever happened to basic organic HUMAN interaction? Hah! ❤
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Sometimes, it seems that posts get a little mixed up in their order…
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I missed an entire day of sleep to with the senior party last night. I slept an hour since yesterday morning. I got voluntold I was chaperoning Friday and all ready had a full weekend lined out. I’m on West coast time and I need to retreat at this point. I do appreciate your reasonable approach. It seems even if we can’t agree on much, I always learn a little from a friendly discussion. Until next time.
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Sent you another personal email Jim asking for your thoughts about the subject we’ve discussed. Thank you Sir.
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go get some good sleep! untils next time…
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Lol. Right on.
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Exactly.
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Dr. Joel Anderson on his blog: “the Gospel is still, nevertheless, hard–it says NEW life and RESURRECTION life only can come THROUGH pain, suffering and death. That absolutely sucks–but in the Gospel, that is the reality”
Gary:
The Gospel = Good News
In other words: “New life and resurrection life only can come through the pain, suffering, and death of 17,000 starving children each and every day. That absolutely sucks, but in the Good News of Jesus, that is the reality.”
Good News??
Which is worse:
Dear starving children: Your horrific situation is due to global economic inequalities, uncontrollable forces of nature, political corruption, and the indifference of wealthy nations to help you. I’m sorry to break the news, but no supernatural being is going to come to your rescue. You can stop praying. Spend your time more productively looking for food. Life is not fair.
Dear starving children: Jesus loves you. Jesus died to forgive you of your evilness. Jesus will give you eternal life in a magical place of bliss, prosperity, and peace. But first, Jesus wants you to starve to death. Sorry…and God bless.
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Classic photograph. Shot by a South African press photographer who worked for The Star.
If you get the opportunity, see the film The Bang Bang Club.
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