I believe that most atheists (most of us are “soft” atheists, btw) do accept “God did it” as a possible explanation for the early Christian Resurrection belief. (Only “hard” atheists, who are a minority in the atheist community, would say the “God did it’ option is impossible.)
However, it is our position that there are many, many more plausible, natural explanations for why this belief arose in the first century. Many Christians will argue that this position is due to a bias against the supernatural. But I believe that there is evidence that this accusation against us is false:
The overwhelming majority of non-Christian historians do NOT believe that there is sufficient evidence to believe that Jesus was seen alive again after his execution, let alone that he was resurrected.
The same majority of historians who state that there is sufficient evidence to believe in the historicity of Jesus is the same majority of historians who do not list as historical fact the alleged sightings of an alive-again Jesus in their public university world history textbooks.
How odd.
Bias (conspiracy theory) or lack of sufficient evidence??
Challenge: How many public university world history text books state as an historical fact that Jesus was seen alive again after his execution? Any? The answer tells you how strong the evidence is for the resurrection of Jesus!
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End of post.
Escaping Christian Fundamentalism 
re: “Challenge: How many public university world history text books state as an historical fact that Jesus was seen alive again after his execution? Any? The answer tells you how strong the evidence is for the resurrection of Jesus!”
Let’s set Jesus aside.
Do you have any idea of how many people have claimed to have seen DB Cooper? Hundreds.
Do you know how many textbooks claim it is a fact that DB Cooper was seen after the aircraft hijack incident? None.
How about Hitler sightings? Got any idea of how many people reported having seen Hitler after his (supposed) suicide? Hundreds.
How many textbooks claim it is a fact that Hitler was seen after the supposed suicide? None.
Exactly how do you prove what somebody else has claimed to have seen, Gary? Exactly what “evidence” could materially substantiate some individuals claim of having “seen” someone?
I mean, let’s say I claimed to have seen Elvis (whom I believe never died in the first place). THEN – let’s say that real, forensic evidence is found that PROVES Elvis didn’t die, and that he is in fact still alive and living in Patagonia. Even THAT does not prove that I myself actually SAW him. Maybe I did, maybe I didn’t. But nobody can say for FACT that I actually saw him. At the very best, in the best of circumstances, one could only say “in all likelihood, it was indeed Elvis that you saw, because we now know he was in your town on the date you said you saw him”.
So OF COURSE a history textbook isn’t going to say – as fact – that Jesus was seen by anybody,.
Dang, use a little bit of “critical thinking”, will ya?
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Exactly how do you prove what somebody else has claimed to have seen, Gary? Exactly what “evidence” could materially substantiate some individuals claim of having “seen” someone?
You are absolutely correct. Historians don’t take seriously claims by individuals that they saw a dead person alive again. Wackos have been making similar claims for centuries. But that isn’t what Christianity claims is it? Christianity claims that groups of individuals, even large crowds (one crowd consisting of more than 500 people) saw Jesus alive again after his public execution!
Imagine if 500 people claimed to have seen Hitler walking around, eating a broiled fish sandwich after his alleged suicide in his bunker. THAT would make the history books!
So why doesn’t the claim that 500+ people saw Jesus alive after his public execution make the history books as an historical fact?? Answer: The evidence that 500 people made this claim is piss POOR!!!
Chew on that you obnoxious, trolling prick.
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re: “Imagine if 500 people claimed to have seen Hitler walking around, eating a broiled fish sandwich after his alleged suicide in his bunker. THAT would make the history books!”
Yeh, sure it would! But, you asked this:
“How many public university world history text books state as an historical fact that Jesus was seen alive again after his execution?”
Do you really think history books would state as an historical FACT that Hitler was seen by the 500 people you mention?
No. They’d say “500 people reported that they had seen Hilter…”. But, they wouldn’t say it was a FACT that Hitler had been seen UNLESS there was other evidence to support it. And that would mean there would have to be real reason to believe that Hitler didn’t commit suicide.
That’s totally different than saying, “10,000 people saw Hitler making his speech in the Nuremburg rally in 1937”. There would be plenty of evidence to support Hitler’s attendance at the rally, his speech, and the fact that there was a rally at all.
Really, Gary… I mean.. . Seriously.
BTW – your performance over on Rauser’s blog was hopeless.
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@ Polycarp’s etc….
The real issue is this: Why do YOU believe it is fact that Jesus was seen alive again after his execution?
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“How many public university world history text books state as an historical fact that Jesus was seen alive again after his execution?
You are either stupid or trolling.
When public university history texts state that Alexander the Great sacked the city of Tyre. They do not state” “It is an historical fact that Alexander the Great sacked the city of Tyre.” You are being your typical self: an ass.
If 500 people, all at the same time and location, claimed to have seen Hitler three days after his bunker was found, historians could interview these people, corroborate their story, and list this event in their history books (as a fact) without adding the caveat, “some people claimed to have seen Hitler…).
You must be stupid.
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And of course Paul’s 500 witnesses do not constitute evidence of any sort. Who were they? Where and when were they? What did they see (mass hallucination)? Did they actually exist? Did Paul witness them hallucinating or is he relying on hearsay? Did he invent them? If they’re so important why don’t the gospels mention them in their completely different lists of ‘witnesses’?
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Absolutely.
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Gary, I really don’t think you get it.
I’m not trying to make any kind of defense or apologetic for anything the bible says.
I’m trying to point out to you how ludicrous your position is, in and of itself. “How many public university world history text books state as an historical fact that Jesus was seen alive again after his execution?”
You really think it must signify something important that the World Book Encyclopedia doesn’t say
“it’s a fact that Jesus was seen alive again after his execution”.
But it’s NOT a “fact”, Gary. The problem is, you don’t understand what constitutes “fact”.
If a person gives an eye-witness testimony in a court of law in which he says “I saw the defendant run out of the convenience store” – that is NOT a “fact”. NOBODY can say for sure (except that witness) whether the witness saw anything or not. The witnesses “seeing” is a totally subjective event (even if it’s “seeing” an objective object). All that can be said is “a witness testified to having seen the defendant”. That’s all.
And, you just don’t get that. I don’t know why. You seem to be an intelligent guy, but, dang…
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Excuse me, Troll.
If 500 “eyewitnesses” claimed to have seen Adolf Hitler at the same time and place eating a broiled fish sandwich three days after the Russians took possession of his bunker and declared to have found his charred body, THAT would be recorded in every public university world history textbook all over the world as an historical fact!
The claim that 500 unidentified people saw the walking, talking body of Jesus of Nazareth after his public execution is NOT recorded in public university history texts as an historical fact because the evidence that this story is legit is piss poor!
You are not here to reasonably discuss the evidence. You are here simply to try to shut me up. Your obnoxious, confrontational behavior on Rauser’s blog is proof of that. You are an obnoxious ASS.
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re: “If 500 “eyewitnesses” claimed to have seen Adolf Hitler at the same time and place eating a broiled fish sandwich three days after the Russians took possession of his bunker and declared to have found his charred body, THAT would be recorded in every public university world history textbook all over the world as an historical fact!”
The fact that 500 claimed to have seen Hitler under those conditions might be recorded as fact, but, there is no way it would be recorded that they did, in fact, see Hitler. Just their claim would be recorded as fact.
But that’s TOTALLY different from what you’re inferring with this: “How many public university world history text books state as an historical fact that Jesus was seen alive again after his execution?”
History books – certainly historians – people like Ehrman, Crossan, Ludemann, etc – will all openely agree that the disciples CLAIMED to have seen Jesus.
But, that’s totally different than what you’re asking. You’re asking how many textbooks would “state as an historical fact that Jesus was seen alive again”.
But, either you’re too boneheaded to figure out the difference, OR, you just like to have pointless arguments. Or a combination of both.
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For a change I actually agree with your position on this issue.
The answer why such an event is not recorded as fact is obvious – or should be: there is no evidence to support the claim written in the bible.
In addition to my original question to you up thread, why do you think this event is taught as fact by apologists and pastors alike?
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My god you are dense.
Please provide a quote from any public university history text book which states that 500 interviewed and verified people claimed that they saw Jesus alive again at one time and place after this public execution.
Guess what? You won’t find one.
You might find statements such as “the Christian Gospels and the writings of Paul include claims that followers of Jesus claimed that he appeared to them after his public execution” but that is it. But the identity of verified eyewitnesses and their corroborated accounts will not be listed because no one knows who these people were or if they even existed.
Stop being dumb or playing dumb, troll.
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Gary, I’m not gonna bother with your usual “show me the info that I won’t bother getting for myself” routine.
It doesn’t change the FACT that what you posted is bogus.
The issue is not about what anybody CLAIMED. That’s not what you’re saying in your original post at all.
So, no, I’m not gonna go down your bunnytrail, which is just your attempt to smokescreen, and cover the fact that your original post is bogus.
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You really should consider learning the skill of saying “Oh, well, maybe I should re-phrase that”.
But you don’t do that. I swear, you could say “Mark says in verse 15 that they went to Jerusalem”, and if somebody pointed out that it says “Capernaum”, you’d ARGUE with them, rather than just saying “oh, that was a typo – I meant Capernaum”.
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In fact, I’m not gonna bother with this pointless conversation at all.
you just like to have pointless arguments. but it’s not my hobby.
Fix your original post. It’s bogus.
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You are here as an obstructionist. You have no interest in a rational discussion. You are a troll.
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