If you have been following this blog recently, you know that I have been in a debate with a group of evangelicals on Psephizo blog regarding the historicity of the birth of Jesus narratives in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke. I have tried to present good, quality evidence to these conservative Christians which demonstrates that even Roman Catholic scholars, who very much believe in miracles and the supernatural, doubt the eyewitness authorship of the Gospels—putting in serious question the historical reliability of these ancient Christian texts.
They did not want to listen! They became furious.
If fact, they told each other to stop responding to my comments and the blog owner blocked me from making any further comments on the entire blog, although all my comments were on-topic.
Dear Readers: Conservative Christians do not really care about evidence. Let me repeat. Conservative Christians do not really care about evidence. These people want to believe their ancient supernatural tales because these beliefs provide them with comfort and security. Some of them may be very educated and intelligent, but when it comes to their cherished superstitions, they are incapable of being reasonable or of using good critical thinking skills.
If evidence does not work to counter this ancient, politically and socially influential cult, what will?
Answer: Ridicule.
The beliefs of this ancient cult are really, really, really stupid.
The mother of Jesus was knocked up by a ghost?? Come on! The massive, daily, human and animal suffering around the globe is due to the fact that our ancient ancestors ate some forbidden fruit?? Our creator sent himself to earth to die on a tree to appease the righteous anger of…himself…all for…ancestral forbidden fruit eating??
It is a stupid story. Just stupid.
When all is said and done, it doesn’t matter if eyewitnesses wrote the Gospels or didn’t. Because even if eyewitnesses did write these four ancient texts, modern, educated people should not be so gullible to believe that a first century brain-dead corpse came back to life and chatted up his former fishing buddies around a fish fry on the sea shore. These stories are religious propaganda. These stories were passed around for decades as religious propaganda among (mostly) uneducated, superstitious, peasants and fishermen.
They are silly, silly, silly.
Let’s stop debating Christians. Let’s simply snicker, giggle, and laugh when they try to convince us of the historicity of first century ghost impregnations, water walking, and corpse reanimations. Even if one thousand first century peasants claimed, at one time and place, to have seen a resurrected corpse, no rational person today should believe them. Why? Because it is a silly, irrational tall tale. We should no more believe the Christian tall tale of a virgin cavorting with the invisible Yahweh than we do the tall tales of Zeus and his sexual escapades with human females. Silly.
Modern, educated people should not believe this nonsense.
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End of post.
Escaping Christian Fundamentalism 
It’s your blog and your show, but I stopped following John Loftus’ blog back around 2015 or so when he stated that arguments don’t work, so his modus operandi was henceforth was going to be ridicule. Since most here are ex christians, we can think back to how we would have reacted to having our beliefs or ourselves ridiculed.
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I understand where you are coming from. Maybe I’m just steamed about being blocked from that Christian guy’s blog.
I don’t intend on going on an extended rant with multiple posts mocking Christianity but after 3,295 posts (yes, that is the number of posts on this blog over the 8 years I’ve been doing this), I think I’m getting near to the end of having anything useful to say about the evidence for and against Christianity. Maybe it’s time to stop.
I do believe that once Christianity is no longer socially acceptable, its popularity will drop dramatically. I believe humanity will be greatly served the day that happens.
To be clear, I am not apologizing for this post. Christianity needs to be mocked. All supernatural beliefs need to be mocked. I believe that supernatural beliefs are probably the primary cause of much of the violence and conflict in the world.
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The thing is, Gary (at least in my opinion), believers simply don’t care. For whatever reason, whether it be conversion during a crisis or teachings from birth forward, the die is cast. They have accepted the story in toto and no amount of alternate persuasion is going to change their perspective.
I think one of the primary reasons that some believers leave the faith is because some event in their life didn’t fulfill their expectations as related to their beliefs. It could be something major (e.g., “God” didn’t heal someone even with a multitude of prayers) … or it could be something rather insignificant but enough of an event that it triggered second thoughts.
Voices like yours may (or may not) play a role in their final decision, but I do think once the decision has been made to leave the faith, they will subconsciously remember your words (and others like you) and that will help to confirm their decision.
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I agree with you, Nan. I would bet that most deconversions occur due to failed expectations: Jesus wasn’t there for them when he should have been.
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I guarantee you, dear Reader, that when first century Jews first heard Christians claiming that Jesus’ mother had “conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit”, their first reaction was: What??? His virgin mother was knocked up by a ghost??? How ridiculous!
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Har, har har… Derision always proves a point, doesn’t it?
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I thought it was an angel, not a ghost. But whatever.
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And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.” –Luke 1:35
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Oh … the third entity of the trinity. When I was a child, we called it the Holy Ghost, after Vatican II, it was renamed the Holy Spirit.
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Yes, Christians decided that they don’t want the public confusing their “holy” ghost with Casper the ghost.
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Dear Christian friends,
Christianity rises or falls on the historicity of the bodily resurrection of Jesus. If this event did not happen, “your faith is in vain”, wouldn’t you agree? The big question then is: What is the evidence for this claim?
-Eyewitness testimony? Experts are divided on the eyewitness status of the Gospels. Therefore, the eyewitness status of 2,000 year old stories in which people see and hear a walking, talking resurrected corpse is disputed. Regardless of what you personally may believe about their historicity and reliability, disputed eyewitness testimony is not strong evidence.
-The changed character of the disciples? Dramatic conversions accompanied by dramatic changes in behavior occur in all religions, sects, and cults. A dramatic change in behavior and character is therefore not strong evidence of the veracity of any particular religion or belief system.
-The disciples would not die for a lie? I agree. Most people would not die for a lie. But tens of thousands of people throughout history have died for a mistaken belief. It is entirely possible that the disciples of Jesus experienced illusions, false sightings (cases of mistaken identity), or even delusions which convinced them that Jesus had appeared to them. If hundreds of people believe that Mary, the saints, and even Jesus appear to them today, why should we be surprised that a small group of first century peasants and fishermen believed similar appearances occurred to them? Alleged sightings of a dead person, even by groups of people, is not good evidence.
-The rapid growth of Christianity proves it is true? This is a logical fallacy. Just because a lot of people believe a story to be true does not make it true.
-Jesus fulfilled many Old Testament prophecies? Most Jewish Bible scholars and even a significant number of Christian Bible scholars question the existence of “Jesus prophecies” in the Jewish Bible. For example, even some evangelical apologists such as Josh and Sean McDowell now admit that the “virgin birth” prophecy in Isaiah 7 was not about Jesus. Disputed prophecies are not strong evidence.
So a brief review of the historical evidence does not support the conservative Christian claim that there is “strong” historical evidence for the resurrection of Jesus. Disputed evidence is not strong evidence.
What other evidence is there for the bodily resurrection of Jesus?
-Answered prayer? Even Christians must admit that answered prayer is very hit and miss. Not every person who prays for healing is cured. The overwhelming majority of Christians with terminal cancer or other terminal illnesses die from that disease. Statistically, answered prayer is no better than flipping a coin.
-The testimony of the Holy Spirit? As a former evangelical, I can tell you that for most evangelical Christians, the perception of the presence of Jesus within them is the strongest evidence for them that Jesus rose from the dead, is alive and well, and is the ruler of the universe. But how reliable are feelings and subjective perceptions of an invisible, inaudible presence? Not very! Feelings and perceptions are notoriously unreliable! That “still, small voice” you believe to be Jesus may well be…you: your inner dialogue with yourself!
So if none of the evidence for this fantastical, never heard of before or since event is “strong” by any rational, objective definition of that word, why do you and millions of other Christians believe it? I would venture to bet the reason is this: It provides you with so much comfort and security! But is that sufficient reason to be teaching gullible adults on the internet and your own children that this ancient supernatural tale is an historical fact?
Please check your conscience, my friend. Belief in the supernatural is the cause of much of the world’s violence and suffering. Give up your comforting superstitions. Do it for the good of humankind.
Gary
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