Gary: Why don’t Christians know the true date of Jesus’ birth?
Roger Olson: I guess that record wasn’t recorded or kept; it must not have been considered that important. I don’t recall any church father suggesting a date. Also, dating as we know it now was not the same then.
-Alexander the Great was born July 20th or 21st, 356 BCE
-Tiberius Caesar was born November 16, 42 BCE
-Caesar Caligula was born August 31, 12 CE
-Caesar Claudius was born August 1, 10 BCE
-Caesar Nero was born December 15, 37 CE
Yet Christians don’t remember the day, month, or even year of the birth of the “King of Kings”. Don’t you find that really odd? Mary, the mother of Jesus, allegedly lived to old age with John the Apostle in Ephesus. But she never bothered to tell John the date of birth of the Savior of humankind? John never asked? John could remember and recorded multiple of Jesus’ long sermons word for word, but never recorded the date of his birth (death, or resurrection!). I thought first century Jews were meticulous about keeping records.
Roger Olson: What’s your point? I don’t understand what this has to do with what I wrote. Please stick to the subject and avoid chasing rabbits.
From your post: For me, Advent means that God literally became human while remaining God and that his humanity was not a disguise but who he became and was and is.
But what if there is evidence that Advent (the celebratory season of the birth of Jesus the Christ, God the Creator) is a legend? If so, Jesus was born a human, died a human, and is still dead as a human. The Creator God never came to earth in human form. There was no angelic appearance to Jesus’ mother; there was no divine impregnation/conception involving a “Holy Spirit”; there was no angelic appearance to shepherds; no wise men came to visit him guided by a magical star.
What is this evidence? Answer: According to the Bible, Mary received a visit from an angel telling her that she would soon conceive a son, not with a human father, but with God himself as the child’s father. Her son would be the the King of Kings, the Messiah, who would save her people from their sins. At his birth, she witnessed shepherds called to visit her and the child by angels. When visiting the Temple for her purification, a prophet and prophetess foretold that her child would be the Messiah. A few years later she and the child were visited by three kings from the East. Shortly after they left, another angel appeared to Joseph her husband warning them to flee to Egypt as Herod, the king, was about to kill very male child under two in Bethlehem. During Jesus’ life she witnessed many of his miracles, such as turning water into wine. She witnessed his crucifixion. She witnessed the Empty Tomb. She was with her son, James, during the early days after the establishment of the Jerusalem church, a church James would soon become the bishop of. Church tradition then tells us, that Mary lived out her later years living with John the Apostle in Ephesus.
Yet, during all this time, no one ever asked Mary the date of birth of the King of Kings and recorded it? Not one single person? The date of birth of God the Creator come to earth in human form was either never recorded, forgotten by later generations of Christians, or Mary forgot. Seriously? Mary forgot the birthdate of her son…GOD???
Not believable! The fact that the birth date of Jesus was not recorded is strong evidence that the entire virgin birth story is a LEGEND. Jesus may have lived and died by crucifixion. Some of his disciples may have believed that he appeared to them in some form after his death, but the story of a virginal conception and a birth in a manger accompanied by angels (space aliens) is in all probability fiction. What would be the first question you would ask someone of another religion if they told you a similar, fantastical, supernatural laden story? Answer: “Exactly when did this occur (the date)?” If they couldn’t give you the exact date, you would scoff at their preposterous supernatural claims. So why do you accept this Christian legend as historical fact, Roger? (Is it because you believe you have a personal relationship with this 20 century deceased man/god?)
And what about the recorded dates of Jesus’ death and resurrection?? Oh, but that is off topic. Maybe another time.
For the rest of the discussion (if Olson allows it to continue. He is a little cantankerous) click here on Olson blog post.
End of post.