Gary, You Are Leading Your Children to Hell!

Christian:

But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

Jesus of Nazareth, ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:6‬ ‭

Gary, You have led your children astray, which is a terrible sin. Watch apologetics like InspiringPhilosophy, aka Michael Jones. He has massive evidence for God. Also what do you have that disproves the afterlife? The Consciousness does not come from the brain, it comes from the soul.

Gary: Thanks for the comment.

How do you know that your religion is the correct religion? Maybe the one true god is the god of a small Indian tribe in the rainforest of Brazil. And this god tells the members of this Indian tribe, through the visions of their medicine man, that nonbelievers like you will suffer unspeakable torment in the Underworld, for all eternity, for not worshipping the one true god. How worried are you about that possibility? And how worried are you that you may be teaching your children to worship the wrong god?

Image of the one true prophet?
Image of the one true god?

Christian: What do you have that disproves the afterlife?

Gary: What evidence do you have that disproves the existence of Peter Pan and Never Never Land?

Christian: Consciousness does not come from the brain, it comes from the soul.

Gary: Where is the soul?

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End of post.

5 thoughts on “Gary, You Are Leading Your Children to Hell!

  1. So we have many gods, it looks like. Zeus, the First Cause, the Egyptian pantheon, etc. Ephemeral and invisible beings that float

    So first off, consciousness. Let’s say I have a cat. And I have a two-columned list of “inputs” or stimulants on the left column (like pettings its softly head or fish-smelling perfume), and a list of “outputs” or responses on the right (such as the cat’s amygdala will light up or serotonin will be produced). With my list, I know exactly how the cat’s brain will be affected and how the cat will react to my actions. Handy!

    …. But, there’s something missing. Because as I look at my list and then I look at my cat, how do I know the cat “looks back” at me? Not that I can see his eyes turn to me and a certain part of the brain lights up. I mean, that the cat has that sense of “first-person”-ness that I experience. I know the cat will jump if I stepped on its foot from my list. But I don’t know if the cat, the object in my view, if it experiences being the subject or cameraman/commentator the same way I live my life. How do I know it’s not a machine?

    I’m not able to view the cat from the outside as a (what would be) third-person character to the cat and know the cat’s first-person experience as it lives in that specific part of the room or even if that “first-person”-ness exists for the cat. This is the hard problem of consciousness.

    Now I won’t even try to tell you which one of these gods is the correct one. There are a lot of them: Zeus, the deist first mover, the Eternal Feminine, Nicholas Cage. All of them beings that float in some other realm and have an effect on us.

    And there are so many religions too. When you ask:

    How do you know that your religion is the correct religion?

    What are you basing “correctness” on? The Truth of the “true god” exists outside of the gods being compared. This correctness of religions exists outside of the spiritual systems being compared. It is this Supreme Spiritual Reality that exists outside of each individuals’ personal religion/worldview which we call God.

    James Cutsinger, Orthodox:

    Religion = set of specific doctrines and practices that are intended to reconnect [re-ligare] human beings to the Supreme Spiritual Reality (God) as defined by this Reality’s own Self-Expression.

    Edward Feser, Catholic:

    …the only thing that could possibly stop the regress and explain the entire series [of causes] would be a being who is unlike the things that make up the universe… That is to say, it would have to be a being whose essence just is existence; … who is pure existence, pure being, full stop: not a being, strictly speaking, but Being Itself.

    David Bentley Hart, Orthodox:

    The most venerable metaphysical claims about God do not simply shift priority from one kind of thing (say, a teacup or the universe) to another thing that just happens to be much bigger and come much earlier (some discrete, very large gentleman who preexists teacups and universes alike). These claims start, rather, from the fairly elementary observation that nothing contingent, composite, finite, temporal, complex, and mutable can account for its own existence, and that even an infinite series of such things can never be the source or ground of its own being, but must depend on some source of actuality beyond itself. Thus, abstracting from the universal conditions of contingency, one very well may (and perhaps must) conclude that all things are sustained in being by an absolute plenitude of actuality, whose very essence is being as such: not a “supreme being,” not another thing within or alongside the universe, but the infinite act of being itself, the one eternal and transcendent source of all existence and knowledge, in which all finite being participates.

    This is a different conception of God from what kids are taught in Sunday school or when stumbling upon New Atheist arguments. Not a being, but Being. Not just why the physical universe exists, but why do I have this “first-person”-ness among many other questions. Many people don’t care to learn more from “invisible, buff Santa Clause in a white robe”. Christians make the claim the nature of God, the entire gestalt of Reality, is triune.

    I’m not familiar with Michael Jones, but maybe this video helps.

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    1. I trust the scientific method. I believe that it has proven itself to be the most accurate method of evaluating our universe. And the scientific method has led scientists to the conclusion that our universe did have a beginning. They call this beginning the “Big Bang”. However, scientists are not in agreement on what or who caused this big bang.

      Since I trust science, because I trust the reliability of the scientific method, I believe our universe had a beginning and I believe that whatever caused this beginning is our creator—whether that cause was a charged proton or the act of an intelligent being.

      I doubt, however, that our creator was a supernatural being. I see no evidence for it. On the contrary, I see a universe created by someone with the mind of a scientist, not with the mind of an all-powerful, all-knowing, benevolent supernatural deity. I see no good evidence that the supernatural has ever operated within our universe. So why believe that our universe was created by a supernatural being??

      You seem to assert that our universe had to have been created by an intelligent being with supernatural powers. I don’t agree. I believe that it is entirely possible that our universe is the product of a scientist working in another universe.

      I believe that it is entirely possible that our universe exploded (the Big Bang) out of another universe, as the result of a scientific experiment, following the laws of physics, not by any supernatural means.

      I believe that the evidence strongly suggest that our creator, whomever he (or she) was, programmed the development or evolution of our universe to occur over billions of years; programmed the eventual development of life forms; and programmed that living organisms with brains of a sufficient size would develop some form of moral standards and eventually even self consciousness. Sounds like a scientist to me!

      And who or what created our creator and the universe out of which our universe was created? Answer: Maybe another scientist in another universe…ad infinitum! And who or what created the first scientist and first universe? I have no idea. Maybe it was a supernatural being. But what has that to do with our universe?

      You may think that my worldview is silly, but I think the same of your Christian worldview! The real question is: which worldview is more probable? Please tell me why your Christian worldview is more probable than mine?

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      1. I believe that it is entirely possible that our universe exploded (the Big Bang) out of another universe, as the result of a scientific experiment, following the laws of physics, not by any supernatural means.

        So, there are possibly other universes that led to our current Universe0. Something like:

        … -> Universe2 -> Universe1 -> Universe0

        To paraphrase Hart’s quote above, and like you realize, each Universe cannot give an account of its own existence. Universe0 must be explained as being caused by something outside itself, in this case, Universe1. And so on and so forth.

        The question that’s being begged is: Where do all of these “Universes” live? But further:

        [[… -> Universe2 -> Universe1 -> Universe0]], How does this list, this process, give an account for its own existence? What caused this Realm of Universes and Universal Causation? This is a higher-order question.

        When we say God, we are not claiming Him as solely a superintelligent being that kickstarted the existence Universe0. But Existence Itself. That which all that exists participates. Things that exist cannot give an account of its own existence; only Existence can provide that.

        “not a “supreme being,” not another thing within or alongside the universe, but the infinite act of being itself, the one eternal and transcendent source of all existence and knowledge, in which all finite being participates”

        Can the natural give an account of itself?

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        1. I stated above that it is possible that the first universe was created by an intelligent being using supernatural means. But since there is no good evidence that the supernatural operates within our universe it is possible that our universe was not created by a supernatural being.

          I do not deny the possibility that our universe was created by a creator using supernatural powers. So for the sake of our discussion, let’s assume it was. Please provide good evidence that your god, Yahweh/Lord Jesus the resurrected Christ, is the creator of our universe.

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          1. Maybe Rasheed is busy and hasn’t had a chance to respond to my last comment, but it could be that Rasheed isn’t interested in providing evidence for why his god is the true god, the creator. Many theists are happy debating the existence of a creator but not so eager to discuss why their god is that creator.

            There is no good evidence indicating that Yahweh/Jesus is our creator.

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