Apologists Claim No Jew Would Ever Move a Body on the Sabbath. But Joseph of Arimathea Did!

Image result for image of joseph of arimathea taking down Jesus body

When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus’ disciple:  He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.  And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,  and laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.

–Matthew 27 (King James Version)

Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.  And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead.  And when he knew it of the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph.

–Mark 15


If you have ever debated a conservative Christian apologist regarding the empty tomb of Jesus, you know that he or she will state the following:  “It is highly improbable that someone moved the body of Jesus because no first century Jew would ever move a dead body on the Sabbath.”

But if we look at the above passage we see that one Jew did move a dead body on the Sabbath:  Joseph of Arimathea!!!

Now, to be honest, there is a controversy regarding the meaning of the Greek phrase in Matthew which authors of the King James Version translated as “when even was come”.  Modern translations translate this Greek phrase as “near evening”.  But even if the author of Matthew meant “near evening”, look at the long sequence of events that allegedly happened so close to sunset, the start of the Sabbath.

Joseph had to travel to Pilate’s residence to “beg” for the body.  Did Joseph just show up to Pilate’s residence to “beg” and was given an immediate audience with Pilate?  Did Pilate drop what he was doing to give an immediate audience to Joseph?  Unlikely.  But let’s assume he did.  What happens next?  Answer:  Pilate summons the centurion from Golgotha.  So someone had to go to Golgotha to fetch the centurion.  The centurion then had to travel to Pilate’s residence to report the death of Jesus.  Only then could Joseph traipse back outside the city gates to Golgotha to take Jesus down from the cross, wrap his body in cloth, and carry him to the rock tomb.  And all this was accomplished “near evening“???

Isn’t it obvious, dear reader:  These stories are not history.  They are embellished theological propaganda.  No one should rely on these ancient texts in an attempt to recreate what really happened surrounding the death of Jesus of Nazareth.


46 thoughts on “Apologists Claim No Jew Would Ever Move a Body on the Sabbath. But Joseph of Arimathea Did!

  1. Mark says Jesus died at about 3:00pm… Seems like plenty of time to get the body off the cross and to a nearby tomb before sunset…


  2. by the way – do you have any idea what the distance from Pilates residence to Golgotha was? Probably not.

    It’s about 2 or 3 tenths of a mile, as the crow flies. Probably not more than 4 tenths of a mile, walking, because the Gennath Gate is due south of Golgotha, due north of Pilates residence.

    Think somebody could walk that in a few minutes? I sure could.


    1. Here is something for you to think about: If you read Matthew 26 and 27, there is no hint of anxiety among the Jews regarding getting the bodies down from the cross before sunset. There is no mention of the soldiers breaking the thieves’ legs to hasten their death. There is no mention of a soldier making sure Jesus’ is dead by thrusting a spear into his side.

      There is no rush in the Gospel of Matthew.

      Here is what the New Revised Standard Version, the English translation preferred by many scholars, says:

      When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who was also a disciple of Jesus. 58 He went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus; then Pilate ordered it to be given to him. 59 So Joseph took the body and wrapped it in a clean linen cloth 60 and laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn in the rock. He then rolled a great stone to the door of the tomb and went away.”

      WHEN IT WAS EVENING! So it is not only the translators of the King James Version who interpreted the Greek word in question “evening”.

      I don’t think it mattered to the author of Matthew that his story stated that it was evening (the Sabbath had begun) when Joseph went to Pilate to ask for the body. He was either unaware or didn’t care if his story contradicted normal Jewish practice of not moving a body on the Sabbath, not buying linen on the Sabbath, and not burying a body on the Sabbath.

      This error strongly indicates that the author of Matthew was very probably not a Jew: therefore he couldn’t have been the apostle Matthew or any other Jewish eyewitness…unless you are willing to admit that Jews DID move dead bodies on the Sabbath! And if you admit that Joseph did move Jesus’ body on the Sabbath, then you must admit that some Jews did sometimes move dead bodies on the Sabbath, and therefore it IS plausible that a Jew or Jews moved Jesus body AGAIN after Joseph had placed him in his tomb and gone home to eat his Passover meal (even though he was ritually UNCLEAN).


  3. And he (Joseph of Arimathea) bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre.”

    –Mark 15

    And at the end of all this schlepping back and forth from Pilate’s residence to Golgotha, “near evening”, Joseph of Arimathea finds the time to stop off at a cloth merchant’s shop to buy some fine linen!

    Give me a break!


    1. well, now, lets see…

      Jesus dies at 3:00pm, give or take…

      His body is still on the cross, because nobody has asked to take it off the cross.
      Joe of A says “I’ll do it”, and he walks from Golgotha to Pilates residence — 15 minutes.

      He asks Pilate for the body, and Pilate says “yeh, whatever…” — 15 minutes
      Joe of A walks back toward Golgotha, but first, stops in the market to buy linen…

      Where was that?

      “These two main commercial streets were linked by numerous side streets running from east to west, which led into the Tyropoeon valley (BJ 5.i38ff.). The most important of these was the street which led from Herod’s palace to the Temple. The present day Tariq Bab es-Silsele, one of the principal bazaars, corresponds to this street.”. (Jerusalem in the Time of Jesus – Joachim Jeremias)

      Wait. The most important market street ran from Herod’s palace to the Temple. And, Pilate would have been staying at Herod’s Palace:

      “But recent evidence uncovered at the site of King Herod’s Palace at the Tower of David, indicates that the luxury-loving Pilate was more likely to have pronounced judgment from there.” (see http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael/2015/april/herods-palace-site-of-jesus-sentencing)

      SO – Joe of A walks out of Pilate’s residence (at Herod’s palace), and lo and behold, there he is on the main market concourse.

      Let’s say he dallies around at the market a while — 30 minutes…

      Then, 15 more minutes, and he’s back at Golgotha.

      Total round trip, shopping and all: An hour and 15 minutes.

      That puts us back at Golgotha at 4:15 in the afternoon. That’s when Joe of A tells everyone they have permission to take the body down. That takes a while, because a few guys had to go get some tools to pull spikes out. It’s 5:30 before they get Jesus’ body down.

      And – that time of year, sunset is going to be about 7:00pm.

      Yep, even if we stretch walking times and shopping times a bit, we still got time for Joe of A – who knows he’s gotta hurry, because a Sabbath is about to happen – to get back in time to carry Jesus’ body to the tomb.

      So — ummmm — what’s your problem?


      1. A reading of Matthew 26 and 27 indicates that there was no rush among the Jews to get Jesus and the two thieves down off the cross. Both the KJV and the NRSV state that (according to the author of the Gospel of Matthew) Joseph had not even gone to Pilate to ask permission until it was evening. The Sabbath had already started. The other modern versions have probably played with the wording because they saw the problem this simple phrase “when it was evening” creates for the Christian tale.

        The author of Matthew was not familiar with Jewish customs. He was not a Jew. He was not an eyewitness. His account should therefore not be trusted as an historically accurate description of what happened at the time of Jesus’ death.


        1. And here is the English Standard Version (ESV) translation of this passage:

          When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who also was a disciple of Jesus. 58 He went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus.


        2. And the American Standard Version (ASV):

          And when even was come, there came a rich man from Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus’ disciple: 58 this man went to Pilate, and asked for the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded it to be given up


        3. The Douay-Rheims (Roman Catholic) Version:

          And when it was evening, there came a certain rich man of Arimathea, named Joseph, who also himself was a disciple of Jesus.


        4. The Revised Standard Version (RSV):

          When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathe′a, named Joseph, who also was a disciple of Jesus. 58 He went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus.


        5. The New King James Version (NKJV):

          Now when evening had come, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who himself had also become a disciple of Jesus. 58 This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus.


        6. New American Standard Version (NASV):

          When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who himself had also become a disciple of Jesus. 58 This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus.


        7. Wycliffe Bible:

          But when the evening was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, Joseph by name, and he was a disciple of Jesus [there came a rich man from Arimathaea, Joseph by name, the which and he was disciple of Jesus].

          58 He went to Pilate, and asked the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be given [Then Pilate commanded the body to be yielded].


        8. evidently, you haven’t checked your Greek bible yet…

          According to both Liddel-Scott-Jones and Slater, ὄψιος simply means “late”

          The Greek says “when yet it became late….”

          I really can’t believe you still rely on English translations, Gary…


          1. Dear Readers: This is one of the BIGGEST pieces of BS that Christian apologists will make when you debate them: “Since you don’t speak and read Koine Greek, you have no idea what you are talking about.” The insinuation is, one must be a Greek scholar to understand what the Christian New Testament really says. Wrong! If one takes three of the most used and respected English translations of the Bible, and all three English translations agree on the translation of the text, one needs to dig no further! Just as English words can have multiple meanings, so can Greek words. But if three groups of translators of three respected English translations all agree, then you can be confident that you have the correct English translation of the Greek text.

            I have just demonstrated that almost all English translations of the passage in question say that it was EVENING when Joseph of Arimathea set out to ask Pilate for Jesus’ body. The Sabbath had begun. Either Joseph of Arimathea, a devout Jew according to the author of Mark, and member of the Sanhedrin, broke the Law of Moses and defiled himself, or, the author of Matthew was a dumb ass Gentile who didn’t know his Jewish customs.

            Liked by 2 people

    2. You’re a clown! Of course NO ONE, who knew a loved one was going to die soon, would ever consider buying a linen cloth prior to, or God forbid someone actually had a linen burial cloth in their possession before all this occurred! You give US a break!


      1. If the family and female disciples of Jesus knew on Friday morning that Jesus was going to be executed, why didn’t they go out and buy these items that morning?


  4. The overwhelming majority of translators of the Greek New Testament into English believe that the author of Matthew stated that it was already evening when Joseph of Arimathea set out to ask Pilate for the body of Jesus. If this is true, Joseph moved a body on the Sabbath; bought merchandise on the Sabbath; touched and buried a body on the Sabbath.

    Christians can no longer say that “no first century Jew would ever move a dead body on the Sabbath”.

    The nail is in the coffin of this false claim...if we are to believe that the author of Matthew was truly an eyewitness to the life and death of Jesus of Nazareth and Joseph did all that the author says he did…on the Sabbath. I personally believe that the evidence I have provided demonstrates very clearly that the four authors of the Gospels were completely untrustworthy historians. They were storytellers!

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Not only do you not read Greek, you also fail to realize that “evening”, for an agricultural society with no electricity, and with it getting dark at 7:00pm — evening starts around 3 to 4 o’clock.


        1. late
          either from three to six o’clock p.m.
          from six o’clock p.m. to the beginning of night – Strongs, Thayer


      1. From Aish.com, a Jewish website:

        “In Jewish time, the day begins with the onset of night (the appearance of the stars) followed by the morning (which technically begins with the appearance of the North Star). According to some Jewish teachers, night and morning begin with sunset and sunrise respectively. For that is how the Torah describes it: “And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.”

        source: http://www.aish.com/jl/hol/o/48944546.html

        Obviously you do not know Jewish terminology for determining day and night.


        1. we all know that according to Jewish reckoning, a day begins at sundown.

          So what, Gary? That doesn’t change what “evening” was for them. “Evening” (actually, “late”) was still – LATE. And, that’s what the Greek says. It was late in the day. That’s what it means. And WE translate that into English as “evening”. But, that’s ENGLISH, Gary. Not Greek.

          In Greek, it’s “late”.

          I’m done with this. 


          1. According to Maimonides (Yad, Shabbat 5:4), the evening twilight begins with sunset and lasts until the appearance of three medium-sized stars, and from then on it is night. R. Tam argues that evening twilight begins from the period it takes to walk three and a quarter mil after sunset to the appearance of the stars. Until then, it is still day. In the Shulḥan Arukh (OḤ 261), this second opinion is accepted as binding. According to a third opinion, held by some of the early commentators, night begins immediately with sunset and the evening twilight is a period prior to sunset, lasting the time it takes to walk three and a quarter mil. The halakhah used systems (a) and (b), while (c), which is the most ancient and is based on the direct observation of the movement of the celestial bodies, is only of secondary importance. All the hours and time concepts associated with the precepts are “variable.”

            Source: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/day-and-night


            1. so what are you talking about twilight for?

              Yes, the evening TWILIGHT goes from one point in time to another, but THAT is NOT the totality of “late” (or, as WE translate it in English, “evening”). That is talking about that particular twilight (as opposed to the morning twilight).

              It’s totally irrelevant, Gary.

              “LATE” (as it says in the Greek) is “LATE IN THE DAY” – hence, WE translate that as “evening”.

              You actually must think the actual word used is “evening”, and you must think it meant the same to people who went to bed a half-hour after dark as it does to us.

              I got no more time for this. Really. Maybe see you on some other thread. But I’d be insane to continue with this discussion.


            1. Why would they? “Evening” is a perfectly good word to use – AS LONG AS YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT IS MEANT BY “EVENING” IN JEWISH RECKONING.

              from some website in jerusalem:

              “When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea,
              named Joseph, who himself had also become a disciple of Jesus
              (vs. 57)…
              When it was evening…Refers to the time period from 3:00 PM
              until 6:00 PM, which was considered by the Jews to be the end of
              the day and the beginning of evening. ”

              I’ve said this same thing repeatedly. Evening is about 3:00 to about 6:00pm (at that time of year).

              So, for Joe of A to be going in the “Evening” (or, literally, “late”) to get linens – MEANT between 3:00 – 6:00pm. It does NOT mean “after dark” as Gary wants to say. In fact, it specifically refers to the last few hours BEFORE it turns dark.

              The Greek word is literally “late” – and, 3:00pm to 6:00pm was considered “late”. Especially in an agrigarian society that had no electric lights

              But I gave up on this thread talking with you clowns a long time ago. you get these ideas in your heads, and it flat doesn’t matter what either history or a good greek lexicon says.


              1. The point I was trying to make is although evening is a perfectly good word the translation should be ‘late’.
                As I don’t read Greek or Hebrew is the word for evening the same as for the word late?
                And do they have the exact same meaning?

                I see you like to generalize with your pejoratives?


            2. Matthew 14:15
              Disciples’ Literal New Testament
              15 And having become evening[a], the disciples came to Him saying, “This place is desolate and the hour already passed. Send-away the crowds in order that having gone away into the villages, they may buy themselves food”.

              Matthew 14:15 That is, late in the day before sundown, between 3 and 6 p.m.


  5. Well, obviously ‘late in the day’ can’t possibly mean ‘evening’, even though just about every translator of the term thinks it does. Your resident Greek expert, ftbond, knows otherwise and really, that should be good enough, Gary. What are you thinking of, relying on all these other scholars, when you’ve got ‘ft’ right here to keep you straight? Landsakes!


      1. Neil, “late in the day” DOES mean “evening” – but “evening” does NOT, by any necessity, mean “twilight has been reached”.

        Gary is saying Joe of A was moving bodies around AFTER twilight – and on the Sabbath – because HE understands “evening” to (evidently) mean “after dark”.

        But, that is clearly not the case.

        Gary is just flat WRONG in figuring “evening” must mean “after twilight”. No. It is the time BEFORE twilight. Once it gets to twilight, people are thinking about going to bed. Their “evening time” has come and gone already. It ain’t like it is in modern society.

        But, my guess is that neither you nor Gary can wrap your minds around that.

        The simple fact is this: when it’s getting past, say, 4:00pm, it is indeed “late in the day” – it is indeed EVENING.

        But Gary wants to believe (so badly) that the implication of what Matthew says is that Joe of A was running around in the dark of night, visiting Pilate, buying linen, and moving bodies.

        That’s nuts. Most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.


        1. I posted a question to Bart Ehrman regarding the “evening” in Matthew 27:57. When he responds, I’ll post it here. If he says you are right, I will publicly eat crow. 🙂


          1. From the Jewish Encyclopedia:

            Minhan Prayer

            “The afternoon devotional service of the Jewish liturgy. The term is probably derived from Elijah’s prayer at “the time of the offering of the >>>evening [“minḥah”] sacrifice“<<< (I Kings xviii. 36). Minḥah is one of the three daily services referred to in Dan. vi. 10. Tradition credits the patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob with the authorship of the morning, afternoon, and evening prayers respectively (Ber. 26b). That Isaac was the original author of Minḥah is deduced from the verse, “And Isaac went out to meditate in the field at the eventide” (Gen. xxiv. 63).

            Minḥah proper, otherwise known as “Minḥah Gedolah” (major) begins at six and one-half hours of the day (12.30 P.M.); “Minḥah Ḳeṭannah” (minor), at nine and one-half hours of the day >>>*** (3.30 P.M.)***”<<<

            Thus, we see, Minhah Ketannah – the EVENING prayer – 3:30pm.

            THIS is yet ANOTHER example of what the Jews themselves say. This, Gary. 3:30pm, and they call it “evening”.

            Perfectly in line with what I said earlier about “evening prayer” and “evening sacrifice” at the Temple period being at noon and at 3:00pm.

            Sorry, I can’t help it. But, “evening” was NOT just the scant few minutes of twilight.


            1. Do you believe that Jews had two “evenings”? (see my next post)

              Which “evening was Matthew referring to? How do you know?


      2. I got no idea what to tell you guys. The Jews had (and have) three prayer times a day: morning, noon and evening. And, there was a morning and an evening sacrifice. The Passover sacrifice was an evening sacrifice.

        Now, however they determined the time for that Passover sacrifice and evening prayer – and regardless of why they determined the time, the time for that Passover sacrifice at the Temple, in Jesus’ day, and the time of the “evening prayer” in Jesus’ day, was “the ninth hour” – which is 3:00pm.

        “Now Peter and John were going up to the temple at the ninth hour, the hour of prayer.” (Acts 3:1)

        “Cornelius said, “Four days ago to this hour, I was praying in my house during the ninth hour…” (Acts 10:30)

        “The animal was slain on the eve of the Passover, on the afternoon of the 14th of Nisan, after the Tamid sacrifice had been killed, i.e., at three o’clock, or, in case the eve of the Passover fell on Friday, at two. ” (Jewish Encyclopedia)

        So, the Passover was sacrificed at the same time as evening prayer – the ninth hour, 3:00pm (unless Passover fell on a Friday – then it was even earlier). And, the Passover was an “evening sacrifice”.

        Look, maybe things (in Judaism) have changed since then. But, that’s the way it was in the first century, for whatever reasons: “Evening” (late in the day) was 3:00pm.

        Go round and round all you want about how Joe of A was running around after dark, because, dang, after all, your bible says “evening” and to YOUR understanding, “evening” must mean after dark.

        But, that’s clearly not how they saw it back then. Evening prayer and evening sacrifice was at 3:00pm…


  6. Gary –

    In this entire thread, you have not posted one single bit of evidence to support your theory. Not one. Nothing. You’ve simply posted a theory, and there is not the slightest bit of evidence that you even went and studied the situation yourself, and could show that it was indeed plausible that Joe of A was running around in the dark, going shopping and moving bodies.

    All you’ve done is said (effectively) “that’s what I believe”, and when others show you very directly-connected evidence to the contrary, be it linguistic or historic, you resort to mocking.

    Either show some evidence that supports your theory, or just admit you got no idea what you’re talking about.


    1. The next day, that is, after the day of Preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered before Pilate 63 and said, “Sir, we remember what that impostor said while he was still alive, ‘After three days I will rise again.’ 64 Therefore command the tomb to be made secure until the third day; otherwise his disciples may go and steal him away, and tell the people, ‘He has been raised from the dead,’ and the last deception would be worse than the first.” 65 Pilate said to them, “You have a guard[t] of soldiers; go, make it as secure as you can.”[u] 66 So they went with the guard and made the tomb secure by sealing the stone.

      –Gospel of Matthew


      The chief priests and pharisees are going to interrupt their Sabbath to ask Pilate to place a guard at the tomb??? If J. of A. had THREE hours to schlepp around Jerusalem, including stopping off to purchase cloth from the linen merchant, why didn’t he or the other members of the Sanhedrin go to Pilate to ask for permission to place a guard during this time (on Friday)??? Why “defile” themselves by going to Pilate’s on Saturday, the Sabbath, the day after the day of preparation?

      Matthew’s is a whopper teller. Who knows what is true in his story and what is not.


  7. Hey, ft, how about we argue instead about that other great story? Did Cinderella leave the ball on the first stroke of midnight or the last? Did the anonymous creator of the story mean ‘midnight’ to be understood literally or metaphorically? Did people at the time have any concept of midnight or had they all gone to bed at 4 in the afternoon? I think it’s vital these questions are answered – the historicity of the entire event relies on it.

    C’mon, man, you’re defending a story. There’s so much wrong with it, not least that John’s gospel has a totally different time-line. Which is right? The synoptics who say Jesus died around 3pm on the Friday, or John who claims he died shortly after being put on the cross at noon on Thursday?


    1. unlike yourself, Neil, I’m not a “Jesus mythoglogist”. I agree with actual scholars, not clowns like your hero Carrier.

      But, if you go back and re-read this thread, you’ll find I’m not “defending” any story at all. I’m not a big defender of the Gospels.


  8. Really? Your comments suggest otherwise. Why bother commenting then on Gary’s dissection of the gospels?

    I’m not a fan of Carrier’s, nor do I suggest anywhere that Jesus didn’t exist. Recognisng that contradictory stories were written about him doesn’t mean he himself was fictitious. You’re quick to criticise Gary for jumping to conclusions, ft, but in fact it’s you who does that.


    1. AH, you’re NOT a fan of Carriers? OH, OK. I must have you confused with some other guy from that other site where we’ve chatted before. (I don’t remember the website, though. I got booted off because once I realize I was talking to a bunch of mythicists, I politely tried to back out of the conversation and ended up getting booted — and, you were in on that same blog).

      But, while we’re setting the record straight: you need to understand this about me: I am not a great defender of the Gospels. I have no idea how or why they ever got deemed as “Gods Word”, or given any kind of stature beyond merely being “the written records we have that best tell the story”.

      There are all kinds of criticisms leveled against the Gospels, and a whole bunch of them are valid.

      But, when it comes down to simply taking an approach – as you, and most skeptics do – of regarding the whole of those documents as being inherently unbelievable – then I’m not on board with that.

      Like, this whole discussion of “twilight”, and whether Joe of A was running around in the dark, buying linen and moving bodies. That whole idea stems from the belief that nothing in the Gospels is worth investigating, and that everything in them is suspect.

      I never made the case that there was even a real “Joe of a”. But, the contention that because the word “evening” is used in English somehow therefore means that the writer of Matthew must not have been a Palestinian Jew, and knew nothing of Jewish laws and custioms, is ludicrous.

      So, I set about to demonstrate with ample documentation what is meant by “evening”. And, the point was ultimately conceded.

      And the thing is this: The “original point” – that Joe of A was running around in the dark on shopping sprees and carting bodies around – should never have been made in the first place. Not if there had been the slightest investigation made. But, no such investigation was made, because it is PRESUMED that nothing in the Gospels can possibly be correct.

      You do the same thing. In another thread, you question how I know that there were two different Passover celebrations. If you yourself had investigated, you would have no need to ask the question, would you?

      But, you’ve never investigated that yourself; else, you would come up with very considerable evidence that what I’m saying is indeed correct.

      The reason you don’t want to investigate, though, is exactly the same reason Gary didn’t want to take five minutes and google for info regarding the Greek word translated as “evening”: You have an agenda, and, there’s no need to let actual, historical evidence get in the way of that.

      Me? I have no agenda regarding the Gospels. I’d just as soon that they were pronounced as “the best of documents we have”, and drop the “Word of God” business altogether.

      But, I do insist on actually digging around to find what is and what is not historically verifiable in those documents. And, the total BS approach as I’ve seen with you and Gary both – regarding “evening”, and the Passover celebration – I have little respect for, because neither of you do the slightest bit of digging through historic materials.

      I may not (or, for all you know, just may) be an “expert”. But, trust me on this: when it comes to “things Jewish”, and Hebrew studies, I am educated.

      But, I myself never put my PhD out there as some kind of statement saying “I am therefore right”.

      I’ll provide research to back what I’m saying. Up to a point. And, that point is the point at which it becomes clear that you aren’t interested in historic fact, because you have your agenda…


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