Rabbi Exposes Rampant Christian Distortions of Jewish Scripture

 

Pearls from the above video lecture:

1. Christianity claims that the reason that Jews do not see the many clear, obvious passages in the Old Testament which prophesy about Jesus is because “the hardness of their hearts” blinds Jews to the truth.  Due to their stubborn sin and their rejection of Jesus, Jews have a veil over their eyes that prevents them from seeing spiritual truths.

What an ingenious tactic to neutralize the arguments of the opposition!  Invent the concept that your opponent has an invisible barrier over his or her eyes and brain which prevents him or her from seeing obvious statements of truth.   And who invented this tactic?

The Apostle Paul:

But their [the Jews] minds were hardened. Indeed, to this very day, when they hear the reading of the old covenant, that same veil is still there, since only in Christ is it set aside. 15 Indeed, to this very day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their minds;  –II Corinthians 3:14-15 

Gary:  No wonder future generations of Christians considered Jews stubborn, sinful, and evil!  What better fodder for anti-Semitism than this Bible passage (and there are more).

2.  The Old Testament never refers to anyone as “the Messiah”.  Don’t believe it?  Look up “the messiah” in a biblical concordance.  You won’t find it anywhere in the Old Testament.  The most important concept in the Christian faith and it isn’t even found in the Old Testament!

3.  In the Jewish Bible there are many messiahs.  “Messiah” simply means “anointed one”.  Therefore, Jewish kings, high priests, and some prophets were referred to as “messiah” since they were anointed.

4.  There are many (approximately 200) passages in the Hebrew Bible which talk about a future utopian age when all mankind will recognize God, all the Jewish people will return to their homeland, and there will be world peace.  The overwhelming majority of these bible passages do not speak about any individual person.  The focus in these passages is “the world”.  However, about 12 of these 200 passages do talk about an individual:  a righteous, anointed king (a messiah) of Israel, a descendent of King David, who will rule in Jerusalem.  Jews have historically referred to this particular “messiah” as the Messiah, but you will never find that term in the (Hebrew) Bible.

5.  The Christian New Testament gives evidence that even Jesus eventually realized that he was not the Messiah.  This is why he cried out on the cross, “My God, my God!  Why have you forsaken me!”  Jesus realized that he had failed as the Messiah.  The Jewish rejection of Jesus is nothing personal.  Jews reject Jesus because he did not fulfill the requirements of the messiah:  A Jewish king who would rule over Israel at a time of world peace and harmony.

Christians will respond that Jesus will return in the Second Coming to fulfill these prophecies.  Jesus will return as King of all the World who will bring peace and harmony to the entire world.  Jews respond:  “Necessity is the mother of invention”.  Jesus failed as the messiah.  So early Christians, struggling with cognitive dissonance, had to make up ad hoc solutions to avoid admitting that Jesus had failed.  But in reality, their rationalization of a future fulfillment of the messianic requirements could by used by any failed messiah!

6.  When we look for major teachings in the (Hebrew) Bible, we should see clear and consistent expressions of this teaching in many passages.  The belief that a righteous king, a descendent of David, will rule from Jerusalem over the entire world in a time of perfect peace and harmony is found in numerous passages in the (Hebrew) Bible.  Even Christians agree with Jews that these passages are clear, consistent prophecies about the Messiah.  Everyone agrees on the messianic meaning of these passages!

But what about the passages in the (Hebrew) Bible which Christians believe are prophecies about Jesus as the messiah?  These passage are not clear and concise, and, even many Christian scholars contest that these passages are messianic prophecies.  Take for instance the “biggest” alleged messianic prophecy about Jesus—Isaiah 53.  There are many Christian scholars who will agree with Jews that this passage says nothing about a future messiah, it is talking about the nation of Israel, referred to in the singular as “Israel”.  The nation of Israel is the “suffering servant”, not a future messiah.  And all the other passages which Christians use to point to Jesus are just as vague and disputed, even among Christians.

If the future messiah was going to be despised and rejected by the Jewish people, why would this important description of the messiah only occur in one passage in Isaiah???  Why wouldn’t this theme be consistent in all or at least many of the messianic passages?  But it isn’t.

7.  How can one determine if the Jewish concept of God is correct or if the Christian concept (a Trinity) is correct?  Answer:  Go through the entire (Hebrew) Bible and write down every passage that discusses who God is and the nature of God.  If you do this, will you see a majority of passages talking about God as three persons or that God will one day take on the form of a human being???  Answer:  No.

8.  The Hebrew Bible never says that a blood sacrifice is the only means of forgiveness of sins.  Genuine repentance has always been the means of forgiveness of sins for Jews.  The idea that one’s sins cannot be forgiven without the shedding of blood is a Christian invention.  It is not in the (Hebrew) Bible.

9.  God told the Jewish people that they were to keep his commandments (the Torah) forever.  Forever means forever!!!  The Christian claim that forever does not mean forever is just nonsensical.

10.  The longest chapter in the Bible is Psalms 119, it has 176 verses, and the entire chapter is about how wonderful is the Law (the Torah) of God.  Yet in not one of these verses does the author of Psalms say, “Hey, guys.  Even though the Law of God is so wonderful and is sweeter than honey, don’t get too used to it.  It won’t exist forever.  The purpose of the Law is to show you how you are a miserable sinner and that you are incapable of keeping the Law”.  But no, no mention whatsoever of this (Christian) perception of the Law in the longest chapter in the Bible.

11.  Instead of reading the Jewish Bible (the Old Testament) for what it actually says, Christians read the Hebrew Bible with an agenda:  to prove their preconceived beliefs about Jesus.  They then use circular reasoning to support their assertions.

12.  Whenever Christians ask me, “Have you ever read Isaiah 7:14 (the passage Christians use to claim that the messiah will be born of a virgin)” I reply, “Have YOU ever read Isaiah chapter seven, verse ONE???”  Most Christians have not read the entire chapter.  Christians need to read these passages in context, not just pull a verse out of context and shoehorn Jesus into it.

Let me give another example:  Zechariah 13:6

And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

Ask a Christian who this passage is speaking of and they will immediately say:  Jesus!  Then ask the Christian to read the entire chapter.  And what will they find?  Answer:  The passage is actually talking about what will happen to a false prophet!!!

13.  Mark Twain:  “To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail.”

Rabbi Skobac:  “To a Christian who believes in Jesus the Christ, every passage in the OT looks like Jesus.”

Here’s another alleged messiah prophecy:  Even my bosom friend in whom I trusted,
    who ate of my bread, has lifted the heel against me.  –Psalm 41:9

Seriously Christians???  How many people in human history have been betrayed by a friend, yet you are going to use this passage as proof that Jesus was the messiah???

14.  In the Gospel of Matthew, there is a passage which states that Jesus and his parents fled to Egypt to escape the wrath of Herod the Great.  After Herod died, the family returned to Israel.  The author of Matthew says, “And this was done to fulfill what was written by the prophet, ‘Out of Egypt have I called my Son.’ ”

This is from the prophet Hosea.  Problem is, if you read the entire chapter in Hosea, you will see that the passage is talking about the Jewish people, using the singular “Israel” to refer to the nation (as we saw in Isaiah 53 above).  The author of Matthew has plucked this passage out of context and turned it into a prophecy about Jesus.  If one first assumes that Jesus is the Messiah, and that the stories about Jesus in the Gospels are historical fact, one can then go quote mining in the Hebrew Bible [Old Testament] and find “prophecies” about Jesus right and left.

15.  In another passage in Matthew, the author alleges that the massacre of the infants in Bethlehem had been prophesied by the prophet Jeremiah.  Let’s read the passage in Jeremiah 31:15 which Matthew quotes:

Thus says the Lord:
A voice is heard in Ramah,
    lamentation and bitter weeping.
Rachel is weeping for her children;
    she refuses to be comforted for her children,
    because they are no more.

Wow.  Sure sounds like Rachel, the mother of the Jewish people, mourning the death of her children.  But wait!  Let’s read the context!  Let’s read the next two verses in Jeremiah chapter 31:

Thus says the Lord:
Keep your voice from weeping,
    and your eyes from tears;
for there is a reward for your work,
says the Lord:
    they shall come back from the land of the enemy;
17 there is hope for your future,
says the Lord:
    your children shall come back to their own country.

Holy plucking-out-of-context, Batman!!!  This passage does NOT sound like a mother crying over her murdered children!  The author of Matthew, once again, plucked a passage out of context!

16.  “But wait!” Christian missionaries will now say.  “Ok.  Maybe Matthew was not quoting these passages in their original meaning and context.  But it is possible, and very consistent with rabbinical Jewish tradition, that Matthew was quoting Hosea and Jeremiah in a midrashic sense, not a literal sense!”

Rabbi Skobac:  Ok.  So now it is no longer that the reason we Jews do not see the “true” meaning of messianic prophecies in the Hebrew Bible is because we are stubborn and sinful.  The reason we do not see the “true” meaning of these passages is because we do not accept your Christian, midrashic (subjective, allegorical, speculative) interpretation of these passages???  Wow.

Bottom line:  If a passage of Scripture can mean anything, then it means absolutely nothing!

One cannot prove anything in the Bible reading it in a midrashic (poetic, symbolic, allegorical) sense.  You can only prove something from the Bible by what it plainly and clearly teaches.

It is certainly possible that Matthew was speaking midrashically when referring to these Old Testament passages.  Then, later generations of Christians who did not realize that Matthew was speaking midrashically, began to interpret these [Old Testament] passages as literally speaking about Jesus, a clear misunderstanding of the context of the originals.

46 thoughts on “Rabbi Exposes Rampant Christian Distortions of Jewish Scripture

    1. so far I’ve clearly disprove most of the points you have made,I have the knowledge and the rejoices to answer the argument. I don’t have the time and I don;t think you want answers. You think getting Jews to disprove Christianity is the way to let yourself off the hook,you must think if your parent’s world view is true you are going to hell. I believe hell is a metaphor for spiritual death,it’s not a physical place to go to. You are refusing the knowledge of God along with the silly ideas that you outgrew,

      Paul knew as much or more abut Judaism and being a Rabbi as they do.If you study the history you see the modern Jews have a lot of biases and have changed their faith and don’t see the world the way Jews of Jesus’ day did.

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      1. Yes, and Muslims say that Christian scholars refuse to accept the clear prophecies about Mohammad in the Christian New Testament. Christians chortle in response.

        Yet, these same Christians turn around and tell us that THEY understand the Jewish holy book better than all the Jewish scholars of the last 2,000 years. Silly. The ones who are blind are Christians. You have already decided what is true before you even crack open the Old Testament to study it. Your appeals to authority (your authority) fail, Joe. You are not debating me. You are not just debating Rabbi Skobac. You are debating all the Jewish sages for thousands of years.

        You are out of your league.

        Liked by 2 people

        1. I don’t claim to understand things like a Rabbi but I’ve known a couple of Rabbis who believed Jesus is Messiah,I;ve read Edershime,he was a professor at Oxford and also at Cambridge at the same time, and trained as a Rabbi. His work the life and times of Jesus the Messiah he give a list of 145 passages which are listed by Rabbis in the
          talmud to be speaking of messiah he shows how Jesus fufills them.

          Of course other traditions says “we are right you Just don;t get it because you are not one of us,? that’s reasonable I don’;t claim to understand their deal, that;snot the point, One crucial difference is that Jesus began as Jew, he was called “rabbi”and he knew those teachings, if he;proves to be credible credible, if calling upon Jesus proves to change your life that is valid reason to believe.

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          1. if calling upon Jesus proves to change your life that is valid reason to believe.

            Aha! And there you have it. The real, underlying evidence for belief in Jesus as Eternal Savior and Lord of the Cosmos: “Belief in his reality has changed me!”

            Have you ever interviewed a convert to the Hari Krishnas? He will tell you what a HUGE change his new beliefs have made in his life! Dramatic change in worldview, change in lifestyle, improved mood, warm fuzzy feelings, and unexplainable perceptions are NOT proof that a new belief system is true. We need real, empirical evidence and Christians cannot provide that.

            As proof, ask Jesus to prove his reality to the entire world by levitating a coffee table for five minutes at a height of three feet off the ground on national television. Guess what? He won’t do it. You know why he won’t do it? It’s not because he doesn’t like being tested. IT’S BECAUSE HE DOES NOT EXIST!

            Come out of the darkness of ancient superstitions, Joe, and into the light of science and reason!

            Liked by 1 person

        2. Yes, and Muslims say that Christian scholars refuse to accept the clear prophecies about Mohammad in the Christian New Testament. Christians chortle in response.

          The typical line from Muslims is that Christian scripture is corrupted. Why would a Muslim put any credence into it, or expect Christians to accept their interpretation of it?

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          1. Have you ever interviewed a convert to the Hari Krishnas? He will tell you what a HUGE change his new beliefs have made in his life! Dramatic change in worldview, change in lifestyle, improved mood, warm fuzzy feelings, and unexplainable perceptions are NOT proof that a new belief system is true. We need real, empirical evidence and Christians cannot provide that.

            Trying to reduce what I;m talking about to “warm fuzies:” is very short sighted and unfair,()(1) I told you in a thread a couple of days ago about how all religions seek to explain the human problematic and to resolve it by transformation experience, That;s what I ;’m talking about, it.s the basis of all religion,It;s also the basis of your athesm.

            (2) I wrote a book about it I spent seven years researching it and read 200 studies, that’s why it’s unfair to just reduce it to warm fuzies,

            As proof, ask Jesus to prove his reality to the entire world by levitating a coffee table for five minutes at a height of three feet off the ground on national television. Guess what? He won’t do it. You know why he won’t do it? It’s not because he doesn’t like being tested. IT’S BECAUSE HE DOES NOT EXIST!

            That pretty adolescent, you see you got that from atheist website atheism is based upon mocking not on thinning, That’s adolescent you think it;s cool because you have been trained to mock rather than think,

            Premise 1″ God is not a big man in the sky

            2, God wont do birthday party tricks because hes not a big man in the sky,
            thereefore
            3. Go not doing birthday party tricks i s not proof that he’s not real,

            Come out of the darkness of ancient superstitions, Joe, and into the light of science and reason!

            come out of the illiteracy of adolescent thinking and learn some real ideas, you have no knowledge of Christina, get your heard out of fundamentalism and learn some real theology

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            1. Trying to reduce what I;m talking about to “warm fuzies:” is very short sighted and unfair,()(1) I told you in a thread a couple of days ago about how all religions seek to explain the human problematic and to resolve it by transformation experience, That;s what I ;’m talking about, it.s the basis of all religion,It;s also the basis of your athesm.

              Wrong. I loved being a conservative Lutheran Christian, but I was dragged to unbelief, kicking and screaming, by EVIDENCE. My feelings were completely opposed to my reluctant change in worldview.

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            2. Yes, yes, it is fundamentalism’s fault that I cannot see the light of “true” Christianity.

              It’s funny, the fundamentalists say that I cannot see the light of true Christianity because I became a non-denominational evangelical. The evangelicals say that I cannot see the light of true Christianity because I became a conservative Lutheran. Conservative Lutherans say that I failed to see the light of true Christianity in conservative Lutheranism because I didn’t fully understand the Lutheran Confessions! And the Roman Catholics say that I have not seen the light of true Christianity because I believe in Protestant “sola scriptura”!

              So you see, it all depends on what flavor of Christianity you prefer as to what is wrong with my ice cream cone!

              Liked by 1 person

            3. get your head out of fundamentalism and learn some real theology

              From whom? Methodists? Baptists? Lutherans? Roman Catholics? Eastern Orthodox? Muslims? Jews? Hindus? Mormons? etc..

              There is no majority consensus in “theology”, Joe. Every group, and even subgroups within each group, have very differing and even opposing views on the very basic principles of theology, such as “Who is God?”

              Theology is not a reliable source of information. Too biased. Science is much less biased. Not completely free of bias, but much, much, much less biased and much more reliable for evaluating truth claims in our universe.

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          1. I’m curious. Can you provide any secular background/history on Paul? I’m aware of what the scriptures say about him. I think you will find that Gary is correct: We have no proof of Paul’s training, only what he claimed. Or proof of anything else, for that matter.

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      1. when are you going to stop committing the no True Scotsman fallacy? you don;t know jack shit about theology, you are just going by stereo types. You do not have the right or the knowledge to dictate to me how to define myself or to live out my belief system,

        I

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        1. I don’t have to know anything about theology, Joe, I simply have to quote the majority opinion of experts on the issues under discussion. The overwhelming majority of Jewish scholars say that you don’t know what you are talking about. I accept the majority opinion that you do not know what you are talking about. That is how educated people deal with claims of fact in all areas of their lives in which they personally are not experts. We do not simply accept the opinion of one “expert” who tells us that we should listen to him because he knows more than we do. We ignore such an outlier and accept majority expert opinion.

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          1. Look at Latias comment. He is a Muslim. Muslims believe that the Christians corrupted their holy book (the New Testament) just as Christians accuse Jews of corrupting their holy book (the Old Testament)!

            What percentage of Muslim scholars believe that the Christians corrupted their holy text to eliminate any prophecies related to Mohammad? I would bet about 99.999%! So the fact that the majority of Christian scholars believe that Jews corrupted their holy text is not impressive. The overwhelming majority of Jewish scholars over the last 2,000 years do NOT believe that there are any prophecies in the Old Testament about Jesus.

            I accept the majority expert (Jewish) opinion on this Jewish theological issue! I don’t need to debate a Christian theologian (Joe Hinman) who thinks that he knows more than the entire Jewish nation.

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          2. I don’t have to know anything about theology, Joe, I simply have to quote the majority opinion of experts on the issues under discussion.

            everyone knows you’re full of shit there,only idiots and bullies and illiterate people say “I don’t have to know noth’n about that to know I do;’t likes it.”t,stop wasting my time,” I know a four year old if want that kind of argument,

            The overwhelming majority of Jewish scholars say that you don’t know what you are talking about. I accept the majority opinion that you do not know what you are talking about.

            Jews for Judaism are not scholars. Their own Yeshivas laugh at them wont go hear then,you do NO NOT HAVE A QUOTE VRO A MAJOR JEWISH SCHOLAR WHO SAYS THAT THE SERVANT IS NOT THE MESSIAH,

            you have read a single quote I posted, you are afraid of the truth and afraid of the evidence,

            That is how educated people deal with claims of fact in all areas of their lives in which they personally are not experts. We do not simply accept the opinion of one “expert” who tells us that we should listen to him because he knows more than we do. We ignore such an outlier and accept majority expert opinion.

            one thing educated people don;t do is,is waste our time in silly name calling sessions with uneducated people who are afraid to examine the facts. I hope you get past your fears and grow up. you re only capable of confronting strwa men,

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      2. No serious scholar of any stripe question Paul;s existence, or his Jewishness or his Rabbinical training,The proof is in front of your face you don;t know what to look for, Being educated at a high academic level, From his Greek, did not come easy,he had to to have some way of getting trained, Being a tent make means he had no money so let;s out private education. just about the only way for working class Jewish guy to get the training would be to be a Rabbi,

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        1. Are you saying that the majority of Jewish, Muslim, Hindu etc. scholars believe that there is evidence that Paul had rabbinical training?

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      3. nyone who repeatedly needs to deny the accusation that he is a liar, is probably a liar (or mad as a March hare).

        so then all you have to do is keep making the accusation if anyone defends their faith then they are wrong. But if they don’t then you say ‘see they can’t defend it, that’s just a double bind.the fact that you have to resort to such tactics proves you have no real support for your childish rebellion

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    2. But what about the passages in the (Hebrew) Bible which Christians believe are prophecies about Jesus as the messiah? These passage are not clear and concise, and, even many Christian scholars contest that these passages are messianic prophecies.

      we don’t have to prove the messianic prophesies of any passage. The Jews have done that for us (in the Talmud), Even when they changed their view to counter us,we have their history that shows they have always done so,they have always seen the SS as a man, and as Messiah,the vast majority have not all but most.

      Take for instance the “biggest” alleged messianic prophecy about Jesus—Isaiah 53. There are many Christian scholars who will agree with Jews that this passage says nothing about a future messiah, it is talking about the nation of Israel, referred to in the singular as “Israel”. The nation of Israel is the “suffering servant”, not a future messiah. And all the other passages which Christians use to point to Jesus are just as vague and disputed, even among Christians.

      read mu list of Rabbinical history that goes back before the Dead Sea scrolls

      http://www.doxa.ws/Messiah/SS_rabbis.html

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      1. Just a sample from the list

        the Babylonian Talmud:

        The Messiah — what is his name? . . . The Rabbis say, the leprous one; those of the house of Rabbi say, the sick one, as it is said, “Surely he hath borne our sicknesses.” (Sanhedrin 98b)

        “The Babylonian Talmud in Sanhedrin 98b states that the Messiah was the leprous one that bore our sicknesses. Actually the Babylonian Talmud is the oldest and “earliest indisputable, firsthand evidence of a rabbinic interpretation of Isaiah 53 which takes the servant as the Messiah, and attributes suffering to him.” A date of about 200 C.E. for the tradition of this Talmud is suggested by the formula used to introduce this section.”

        –http://www.amfi.org/ABOUTWHOM.htm AMF International Isaiah 53 ABout Whom Does it Speak?

        by David R. Brewer

        [The traditions for this quotation have been estimated to be roughly second century AD–Edersheim documents that this name, “lepourous one” is expressly related to Is. 53]

        Shemoth R. 15 and 19

        Edersheim documents Is. 52:12 applied to the Messiah.

        Is. 52: 3 Sandhed. 97b

        Ibid. 726

        “…Messianichally applied in the Talmud (Sanhed. 97b)

        ISAH SERVANT MESSIANICALLY INTERPRETED in Targum

        “The Targums were Aramaic translations of the Hebrew Old Testament. They apparently circulated during Jesus’ lifetime (there are Targums of Job and Lev. in the Dead Sea Scrolls). Although they were finally put into writing after the New Testament period, these represent typically VERY ancient understandings of OT passages. If the Targums interpreted OT passages messianically, this implies that the Jews pre-NT had similar understandings. We also know that targums circulated BEFORE the NT times, since some of them were found at Qumran.”(Ibid)

        Edersheim also defends the notion that these early Rabbinical writtings, from firt few centuries AD reflect older material and tradtions.

        Targum, Isaiah 42.1-9 states:

        “Behold, My servant, the Messiah, whom I bring near, My chosen one, in whom my Memra takes delight; I will place My holy spirit upon him, and he shall reveal My law to the nations…” Isa 43.10: “‘You are My witnesses before Me’, says the Lord, ‘and My servant is the Messiah, whom I have chosen…”

        Targum, Isaiah 43.10 states:

        “‘You are My witnesses before Me’, says the Lord, ‘and My servant is the Messiah, whom I have chosen…”

        [Source: S.H. Levey, The Messiah: An Aramaic Interpretation, Monograph of the Hebrew Union College 2: Cincinnati: 1974.–cited with chart at Noncanonical Writings and New Testament Interpretation, Craig Evans, Hendrickson: 1992., p. 108.]

        Targum Johathan (4th century)

        [reference to Is 52:13]

        “Behold, My Servant the Messiah ..shall prosper. He will be high and listed up..”

        — Targum (“Targum Jonathan”) to Isaiah 52:13, various editions (such as Samson H. Levey, The Messiah: An Aramaic Interpretation; the Messianic Exegesis of the Targum.” Cincinnati: Hebrew Union College, 1974, p. 63).

        Targum (“Targum Jonathan”) to Isaiah 52:13, various editions (such as Samson H. Levey, The Messiah: An Aramaic Interpretation; the Messianic Exegesis of the Targum.” Cincinnati: Hebrew Union College, 1974, p. 63).

        (also fuller vresion of the same quote)

        Richmiel Fryland:

        “But who is this Servant? Our ancient commentators with one accord noted that the context clearly speaks of God’s Anointed One, the Messiah. The Aramaic translation of this chapter, ascribed to Rabbi Jonathan ben Uzziel, a disciple of Hillel who lived early in the second century C.E., begins with the simple and worthy words:

        “Behold my servant Messiah shall prosper; he shall be high, and increase, and be exceeding strong: as the house of Israel looked to him through many days, because their countenance was darkened among the peoples, and their complexion beyond the sons of men.” (Targum Jonathan on Isaiah 53, ad locum)

        Targum on Is 53:10

        “Is. 53:10 is applied in the Targum on the Passage to the the Kingdom of the Messiah” (Edersheim 727)

        First couple of centuries after Christian era Midrashim

        The anti-missionaires try to undermine all of these quotations, but espeicially those from Midrash saying htat Midrash is just figurative, so they don’t really mean it! But here are several quoations which sure sound as though they mean it.

        Pesiqta Rabbati (ca.845)on Isa. 61,10:

        “The world-fathers (patriarchs) will one day in the month of Nisan arise and say to (the Messiah): ‘Ephraim, our righteous Anointed, although we are your grandparents, yet you are greater than we, for you have borne the sins of our children, as it says: ‘But surely he has borne our sicknesses and carried our pains; yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God and afflicted. But he was pierced because of our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was laid upon him and through his wounds we are healed'(Isa.53,4-5).”

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        1. what Christians never seem to point out that in Jewish interpretation the servant messiah and the servant house of Israel are always intertwine/
          you like to quote Targum Jonathan on Isaiah 52:13 but what about Targum Jonathan Isaiah 52:14, that identifies the house of Israel as the long-suffering and humiliated servant. quote: “As the house of Israel looked to him during many days, because their countenance was darkened among the peoples, and their complexion (darkened) beyond the sons of men.”
          and also Isaiah 53:10 here again Targum identifies the suffering servant as the nation of Israel who suffers unbearable chastisement in the following commentary. quote:
          “But it is the Lord’s good pleasure to refine and cleanse the remnant of His people in order to purify their souls from sin; they shall see the kingdom of the messiah, they shall increase their sons and daughters, they shall prolong their days; and those who perform the Law of the Lord shall prosper in good pleasure.”

          Simply put, there are 15 verses in the Targum’s annotation on Isaiah 53. in the almost all of them with the exception of the first verse on Isaiah 52:13. in the literal level (pshat) the still identify the servant to be the people of Israel.

          The “Light of Life” interprets this concept: In the inner conception of things, the leper thus signifies a very lofty, perfect one, who completely purified all his inner powers, until all his inner self was pure, and now he had only the remains of the residue, the debris left in the outermost layer. And this external waste, too, is not his own, but that of the people of Israel, as it is written: “We have been healed.”

          This is why the Messiah, Israel’s savior, is called a “leper.” This nickname, in its spiritual and internal meaning, expresses supreme perfection – both of Messiah himself and of the entire people of Israel. Everything is already complete and ready for redemption.
          In addition, the nickname “leper” expresses the fact that the messiah is in exile, suffering from the ills of exile and eagerly awaiting his revelation and bringing true and complete salvation.

          This is also the situation of the people of Israel at the end of exile – from the outside it seems as if there are many lesions (leprosy), but the truth is, these are only external lesions. All of the interior of the people of Israel has been cleansed over the ages, and only remains to purify the outer and lower ranks.

          did Jesus fulfill all that? absolutely not. quite the opposite, after him the exile of his people both physically and spiritually only increased.

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  1. Rabbi Skobac: Ok. So now it is no longer that the reason we Jews do not see the “true” meaning of messianic prophecies in the Hebrew Bible is because we are stubborn and sinful. The reason we do not see the “true” meaning of these passages is because we do not accept your Christian, midrashic (subjective, allegorical, speculative) interpretation of these passages??? Wow.

    Unless of course some of it is direct and literal. Like where Zachariah pretty clear about the Messiah being named Jesus,it does involve symbolism but the meaning is inescapable.,
    “his name is the name of the one who brings the branch,the reference to bringing the branch is about Messiah,The guy in question is named Joshua (Jesus),
    http://religiousapriorijesus-bible.blogspot.com/2011/01/thumbnail-1-two-messiahs-david-and.html

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    1. I have 50 quotes from rabbis going back to before Christ who say the suffering servant of Isaiah 53 is Messiah. The majority of Jews prior to 20th century the overwhelming majority said this, any other view was unknown. It is true that there have been Rabbis here and there who took the other view going way back to the middle ages but the vast majority have understood Messiah as a man and that man was depicted in Isaiah 53 as the suffering servant,

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    2. Jeshua was the most common, or at least one of the most common male names, in Judaism! How do you know it was not just coincidence?

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      1. You don’t seem to get the point, no one else in history came forward named Jesus and tried claim to be Messiah, Bracaba was not named Jesus. He also has to fit all 145 passages and he;s the only one who does,

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  2. I don’t want to stop Jews from being Jews, There is no reason to, But Jesus was a Jew he understood himself as messiah and the followers understood him as such too, they understood their own tradition as well as the guys you listen understand it. In fact it was different in Jesus; all Judaism without the temple is just a simulacra.

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    1. Jesus was a failed messiah. He did not rule over a world at peace. If someone wants to be a worshipper of the God of the Old Testament they need to become a Jew or at least join a Noahide congregation. Worshipping any human being or alleged demi-god is an abomination to Yahweh.

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      1. Anti missionaries make that argument it;s quite stupid Edersheime shows the passages in the OT and the Talmud references that say “this is Messiah.” He has not done those things yet because it;’s not time to, the passages show Messiah was to come,be rejected,go away and come back.he is in the phrase waiting to come back. then he does that stuff

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      2. If you like Jesus and do not think he is God, but rather someone chosen by God, just be Muslim or a non-trinitarian Christian. 🙂

        If like music or want to have friendly interactions with the opposite gender (i.e. gender mixing), stay away from Salafis and Wahhabis.

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        1. you have no answers, You have no answer to the name of the branch, yo have not answered anything I;ve said, every time I disprove your nonsense you resort to innuendo and personal attack.

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      1. Problem is, Jesus’ culture overwhelmingly rejected his mission because he did not fulfill the agreed upon requirements to fulfill the role of messiah. To say that Jesus will fulfill these requirements at some time in the future is a cop out. Any messiah pretender could make up such an excuse. Jesus was a failed messiah. Period.

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        1. You have not demonstrated a single way in which he failed to fufll anything, but you have no basis for the claim that he was rejected (never mind the fact that he was supposed to be rejected according to the Talmud). Again 2 Billion Christians 24 million Jews, big picture ,man.

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  3. Naturally there;s a gentile understanding. all we can do is understand from the framework we are i,we make assumptions, based upon who we are you are not to accepting Christians but you want them to accept you.

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