Moderate Christians and their Sophisticated Explanations for the Reality of Ghosts

Joe, a Moderate Christian:

You [Gary] are still working in that mistaken dichotomy between subject/object. There is no objectivity, an objective standard is merely less subjective, There is no perfect objectivity and cultivation of that illusion is merely something to hide behind. Personal experience is true compromise. The scientific data of my studies prove the assertions of my subjective experiences [of Jesus], 200 studies you have none, none at all. I have 200 backing my world view. Backing my experiences of God.

Learn this term. Inter=subjective, Not merely subjective but INTER-subjective. Objectivity is a sham but inter-subjectivity means it’s confirmed and validated even though subjective.

[Gary had said:]  There is another word for that concept, Joe. It’s called: an imaginary friend. Imaginary friends provide very REAL comfort and a very real sense of security but the friend itself is NOT real, Joe. It is an illusion.

Joe:  That is a mockery of the God hater club, an attempt to devalue and degrade personal experiences and the reality of God. But you have nothing like the vast body of confirming data I have backing my views.  You have not one single study proving your view.  Science does not offer you a body of conferring data.  It’s an excavate you are not scientific, there is no scientific basis for disbelief in God.  When you say we’ve reached an impasse [in our discussions] you really mean you want to quit before you have been confronted with more reality that blows your ideology out of the water.

 

Gary:

Joe, I know this will be hard for you to consider, but please think about this:

I believe that you have constructed an elaborate, very sophisticated façade in an unconscious attempt to give respectability to an ancient tale that in reality is nothing more than a ghost story.

Empty graves prove nothing, and, people claim to see ghosts all the time.

Ghosts aren’t real, Joe. They aren’t real when you think you “see” one, and they aren’t real when you “feel” that one is living inside your body. Ghosts don’t talk to you in a “still, small voice”. Ghosts don’t protect you from car crashes and cancer. Ghosts are not building a mansion for you in outer space. And ghosts cannot magically make you live forever. You are living in an elaborate delusion, Joe.

Come out of the darkness of superstition and into the light of reason, rationality, and science.

Discussion:

It really is very simple:

Modern, educated people know that people today who have been brain dead for three days do not come back to life; dead people today do not walk out of their graves to hook up with former friends for a broiled fish lunch. It NEVER happens.

So why on earth would modern, educated people believe that such an event happened in Antiquity in an age of rampant superstition and scientific ignorance?

I believe it is ONLY because our western culture, for 18 centuries, has condoned and enforced the belief in this far-fetched tall tale that it is conceivable that modern, educated people would believe in the historicity of this fable. Just as culture is the reason that many modern, very educated Muslims still believe that a man rode a winged horse to heaven, and culture is the reason that many modern, very educated Hindus believe that a man caused a water buffalo to speak in a human language, it is culture that gives acceptance for modern, educated westerners to believe that a dead corpse walked out if its first century tomb, ate a broiled fish lunch with its former fishing buddies, and then that evening, levitated into outer space where it currently sits on a golden throne on the edge of the Cosmos.

It is a ghost story, folks. It is not reality. No amount of sophisticated-sounding mumbo jumbo changes that fact.

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6 thoughts on “Moderate Christians and their Sophisticated Explanations for the Reality of Ghosts

  1. Great discussion, Gary. Christianity was founded on visions and emotional experiences and that’s the way it continues. You can, as Joe does, call these whatever you like but it doesn’t alter the fact they’re still subjective – unverifiable and unverified solipsisms.

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  2. Let me explain why I believe that moderate Christianity is so dangerous.

    First, let’s start with liberal Christianity. Liberals believe that the Christian God is a God of love. He would never harm anyone. There is no Hell. No one is going to be punished for “sin” or for rejecting Jesus. Everyone will be saved in the end.

    This belief system, to me, is a harmless fairy tale.

    Fundamentalist Christianity is, of course, evil to the core. Any belief system that condemns people to eternal suffering simply for what they believe is evil incarnate. It is an attempt at mind control through blackmail. However, it is so blatantly silly and defies so much of modern scientific knowledge that if this were the only form of Christianity available, I believe it would be extinct (at least in the educated West) within not so many decades.

    Moderate Christians have taken the loving God of liberalism (as an appealing exterior facade) and combined it with fundamentalism’s goal of mind control. The Moderate Christian God is presented as a God of love as a means to entice you into the “fold”, but once in, you are warned that this loving God is still going to punish you, in some fashion, if you ever refuse to continue submitting your mind to his control. It is still a system of mind control. However, it has replaced the most embarrassing fundamentalist beliefs with very educated-sounding, sophisticated-sounding theological psycho-babble (riddles) which are nearly impossible to disprove.

    Moderate Christianity is a smoke screen to maintain orthodox Christianity’s mind control of the less educated (the masses) through the use of complex, sophisticated-sounding philosophical and theological constructs in an attempt to intimidate the masses from questioning the veracity of their two thousand year old ghost story.

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