Pastor Bill, a fundamentalist Baptist pastor and childhood family friend, is corresponding with me regarding my loss of faith. He has kindly agreed to allow me to post his correspondence here on my blog.I ask my readers to be polite to Pastor Bill. Even though he has disagreed with my decision to become a Lutheran, and most recently, an agnostic, he has always been kind and polite. You are welcome to post (respectful) comments below the post(s). Whether Pastor Bill chooses to respond to readers’ comments is his choice as I know he is a very busy man.
I will intersperse my comments in red.
Adam’s Promised Death
27 May 2015
I read some from the list of the references you gave as to “unfulfilled prophecies” and I thought to mention a few things about the very first one;
As copied from your reference:
……….”But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
God says that if Adam eats from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, then the day that he does so, he will die. But later Adam eats the forbidden fruit (3:6) and yet lives for another 930 years (5:5). 2:17″……..
The author of this list of supposed “unfulfilled prophecy” gives an accurate quote of Genesis 2:17 and then claims the prophecy was not fulfilled…….. Really??
Man was created in God’s image:
Genesis 1:26‑27 (KJV)
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Because the Lord has chosen to reveal Himself to us as the Trinity…
1 John 5:7 (KJV) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
At the baptism of Jesus all three Persons of the God head were active:
Matthew 3: (KJV)
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
In what is commonly called the Great Commission, we find all 3 mentioned:
Matthew 28:19 (KJV)
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Because God is One God revealed in 3 Persons, making man in His image requires man be a 3 part being, Body, Soul and Spirit. At the time of creation man was just that, a 3 part being, with a promise, “… in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die” … Man failed on a particular day and actually did die that same day….JUST AS THE LORD HAD PROMISED
… He died spiritually.
It seems to me, Pastor Bill, that you are reading your theology into the text. God said “you will die”, he did not say, “you will die spiritually”. Words must have meaning if we are to intelligently converse with one another. If God uses the word “die” we must assume he means physical death unless he specifies otherwise.
This is why Christianity is divided into more than 30,000 denominations and sects. Every Christian interprets for himself what God “really meant to say”. The author of this particular Bible passage says “death” and I choose to take him to mean “physical death” because that is what the word means without any added qualifiers.
In His discourse with Nicodemus in John 3 we see this referred to when Nicodemus says, “…How can a man be born when he is old?…” His thinking was that of a physical birth but Jesus was speaking of the dead spirit that every man since Adam has been born with. That dead spirit, inherited from Grandpa Adam is within every person ever born, with the exception of Jesus, passed down from father to child and has to be dealt with prior to being prepared to go to heaven. At the moment of salvation the Holy Spirit comes within man, touches the dead spirit of that man and he is “born again”. Once saved a person is again a “complete” person and prepared to serve the Lord as we await Jesus’ return or our own going to heaven upon our death.
Writing to believers, Paul’s admonition and encouragement was;
1 Thessalonians 5:23 (KJV)
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
That same Holy Spirit that brought conviction to me of sin and righteousness and judgement to come lead me to see the price Jesus paid for me and while I was yet a sinner I realized Jesus’ death was for me. I received the free gift of salvation and the same Holy spirit abides within me and is my guarantee of heaven.
Romans 8:9 (KJV)
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
2 Corinthians 5:5 (KJV)
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
Most people who have worked with real estate at all recognize the term “earnest” as that of the down payment. The Holy Ghost is God’s down payment and assurance that the transaction begun when I received Christ Jesus will be completed…Glory to God, WHAT A SAVIOUR, WHAT A REMARKABLE BOOK!!
The fundamentalist Christian belief system may appear to be wonderful and remarkable to you, Pastor Bill, but if you have no verifiable evidence for its veracity, it is simply your personal opinion, no different than the personal opinion of someone who has chosen to follow the remarkable teachings of the prophet Buddha.
Your entire statement above is based on your interpretation of what the Biblical author meant to say. This isn’t evidence, Pastor Bill, it is opinion. It will not convince anyone who doubts the divine origin of the Bible.
2 thoughts on “Fundamentalist Baptist Pastor Bill responds, Part 4”
Well said, Gary. I'll keep an eye out in case Bill decides to reply to any of the questions I asked him the other day.
He sent me an email last evening saying that he was going to try and have a response to your comments by Tuesday.