Conservative Christianity and Snake Oil

Fundamentalist Christian:

Every ancient culture on earth has a flood story, surely you’re heard of Gilgamesh? Many African cultures have an oral tradition of a flood myth including the Kwaya, Mbuti, Maasai, Mandin, and Yoruba peoples. In India Puluga, the creator god in the religion of the indigenous inhabitants of the Andaman Islands, sends a devastating flood to punish people who have forgotten his commands. Only four people survive this flood: two men and two women. The list of ancient people who have flood myths is incredible, Korea tells the story of Mokoryung, Malaysian tells us of Temian, Australian aborigines tell of the flood if Tiddalik, in Polynesia there’s multiple stories. Ancient tribes up and down the North and South American continents including the Hopi and Inca all have stories of the flood. All are similar, God warned them to clean up their act, they didn’t, bang! Flood! If you really had an open mind you’d be thinking – hey there’s something here.

Gary

I did some reading on the Flood myths. Based on what I read, there are several cultures that have stories about catastrophic floods, but is that proof of Noah’s Flood?  If you can show me that ancient peoples in all the continents have ancient flood stories that describe eight people who were saved by getting into a boat, along with a pair of every species of animal on the earth, and everyone else on earth died…I will be a believer.

Fundamentalist Christian:

No you won’t. You’re not open minded enough. You’re basing Christianity on your personal acceptance of the Flood. Tell me – what portion of your salvation relies on the Flood?  The proper response to the scriptures is “Jesus said it was true, he taught lessons from it including the Flood. Therefore it is true.” THAT is what being a believer is all about.

Gary:

Have you considered, Doug, that Jesus made mistakes?  For instance, Jesus believed that Moses wrote the Pentateuch. Modern writing analysis proves he didn’t. Just because Jesus believed in a Great Flood, doesn’t make it true. Jesus was a great man, but still a man, and men make mistakes.

Fundamentalist Christian:

No, never for a moment did I ever believe that Jesus made mistakes, even at my lowest, when I was spiritually as low as you did I ever feel that. Modern writing analysis has discounted assistants too? Just because Moses had did not hold the scribe does not mean he wasn’t the author. Even the holiest man to the modern left, Barack Obama, used assistants to write his story.

And I find it very bizarre that you, an Evangelical Atheist, is fooling yourself and trying to placate me by calling Jesus a “great man”. A man who said the things he said is not a “great man”. Here’s a guy who walked around Judea claiming not only to be the son of God but God in the flesh. You now have a choice – he’s either a complete and utter lunatic or he truly is God. You can’t see what he said and what he did and come up with this lame “great man” nonsense. He’s either a madman, Satan incarnate, or God. You can either spit on him, kill him as a demon or fall at his feet and worship him as the Son of the Living God. He didn’t give you an option to do otherwise So don’t insult me or patronize me with your “great man” babble. Be honest. Either tell me he was a lunatic, tell me he was a demon, or tell me he was God. For once in this exchange attempt to be honest with yourself.

Gary:

Doug, I am your friend not your enemy. Those of us who were raised fundamentalist/evangelical/orthodox Christian have been sold a large horse cart of snake oil. The Bible is simply and only a collection of supernatural nonsense written my ancient, superstitious, middle eastern goat herders. It isn’t true.

We have been deceived, my friend. Open your eyes to the real truth.

Fundamentalist Christian:

Calling my core beliefs snake oil and the very word of God “nonsense” is not an act of friendship. I will let you know when you have the right to call me friend. Open your eyes to the truth of Lord Jesus Christ.

Gary:

Jesus was a great man. But Jesus is dead, Doug. The belief that he was reanimated three days after his death is based on nothing more than superstition, assumptions, and second century hearsay. It isn’t true. We have been deceived.

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One thought on “Conservative Christianity and Snake Oil

  1. re: “All are similar, God warned them to clean up their act, they didn’t, bang! Flood! “

    did the timelines of all these old stories line up? (ie, did they all refer to the same time period and hence the same flood?)

    and did they all believe in the same god? why would your “one true god” warn these other cultures if they were worshipping the wrong god? or are you a universalist of some sort? and who wrote down these stories if everyone was killed except noah and his family? or was there one flood, and a few families in each culture survived? (in which case, world-wide, noah and his family were not the only survivors, and hence the bible is not inerrant, on this point, right?)

    re: “You now have a choice – he's either a complete and utter lunatic or he truly is God.”

    your choices left out “legend.” ie, there were legends that grew up about him, told and written by others after his death, which he had nothing to do with.

    in fact, we know that this is true — the non-canonical gospels are examples of legendary development, and one or two of these are estimated by scholars to be written about the time of the canonical gospels, perhaps even before them.

    so we know for a fact that there were some writers making stuff up about jesus, and some of those non-canonical gospels were considered authoritative for a couple centuries before the current canon came into being.

    an even more likely answer to me is: *all* the gospels have some legendary development.

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